Monday, May 20, 2013

Daily Links, Monday, May 19, 2013

I didn't shoot until I saw the whites of his eyes.

PHILS/TAIWAN MESS:
The Ministry of Foreign Affairs has this front and center on its website at the moment.

BLOGS:
MEDIA:

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18 comments:

Ryan Chung said...

With regards to that old fisherman who said they usually brought NT$500,000 in case they get caught by the PCG in our waters, you have to consider yourself lucky if they took your bribe.

Republic Act No. 8550: "The Philippine Fisheries Code of 1998."

Section 86. Unauthorized Fishing or Engaging in Other Unauthorized Fisheries Activities
Any commercial fishing boat captain or the three (3) highest officers of the boat who commit any of the above prohibited acts upon conviction shall be punished by a fine equivalent to the value of catch or Ten thousand pesos (P10,000.00) whichever is higher, and imprisonment of six (6) months, confiscation of catch and fishing gears, and automatic revocation of license.

Section 87. Poaching in Philippine Waters
Violation of the above shall be punished by a fine of One hundred thousand U.S. Dollars (US$100,000.00), in addition to the confiscation of its catch, fishing equipment and fishing vessel: Provided, That the Department is empowered to impose an administrative fine of not less than Fifty thousand U.S. Dollars (US$50,000.00) but not more than Two hundred thousand U.S. Dollars (US$200,000.00) or its equivalent in the Philippine Currency.

Anonymous said...

I take it that you displike the column of Guardians? Because it really is praising Ma, saying Taiwan actually is gaining.

My opinion is that Ma is making the situation messier by the day.

Anonymous said...

Your link to the Taiwan embassy makes one think of Taiwan is a real democracy or am authoritarian state pretending to be a democracy. Such propaganda material are characteristic of communists and authoritarian states

Michael Turton said...

Anon at 1:58, yes I think the Guardian piece was really stupid.

Anonymous said...

For a moment, I thought I was reading The Onion:

http://focustaiwan.tw/news/aall/201305200043.aspx

daiwanlang said...

Lets say the said fishing vessel was firmly within Filipino water. And let's also assume the said fishing vessel was poaching and did refuse attempt to board by the PCG, I'm still quite unclear how you managed to reach the conclusion that the Filipinos are in the right on this one.

You continue to cite the Filipino account of attempted ramming as gospel, but there's been absolutely no evidence to back this claim up. Even the bullet holes demonstrate the fishing vessel was moving sideways in respect to the PCG vessel. So how does one ram by going sideway???

THere were about 50 bullet holes found on the ship, so if you end up with 50 bullet holes on the ship, how many did the PCG actually fire? More likely 2-3 times the number. All that ammo just to disable the engine? You're kidding right? You honestly believe that?

THe Taiwanese fishermen are no saints, you are absolutely right on that. But I seriously doubt they had a death wish, which would have been the case if that small fishing vessel tried to ram the PCG ship.

Most likely this is what happened. The Taiwanese were poaching, once again. The PCG, having seen this play out over and over again, try to stop and board. The Taiwanese vessel was likely faster and was starting to escape. The poorly disciplined PCG crew, furious and fustrated at the thought the Taiwanese are going to get away again, used excessive force and machine gunned away.

THe ones using the excessive force is still ultimately at fault. Is Ma using this to stir up nationalistic sentiments? Of course. But ultimately who is still at fault? Still goes to the PCG.

Michael Turton said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Michael Turton said...

The PCG scenario with ramming makes more sense. The PCG vessel was much faster and could have caught the Taiwanese boat, had the Taiwanese boat been faster all the hits would have been astern. The reason ramming makes more sense is because PCG boats do board Taiwan boats and do catch poachers without shooting, normally. Hence something abnormal happened.

The sideways shots occur because they hit the boat as it comes around (they don't wait for it to finish coming around to ram!). I agree that probably more shots were fired than actually landed.

I don't take the PCG version as gospel. I merely note that it makes more sense than the extremely silly and stupid Taiwan claim that the nothing was happening and suddenly a PCG patrol boat shot at them.

Excessive force was not used, in my opinion. The PCG clearly shot at the boat across the bow to warn it and into the stern to disable it. That is what they said, and that is what the evidence shows. Unluckily, one of the poachers was accidentally killed.

Taiwanese should grow up and accept that if they want to eat shark fin soup and tuna, then the people who poach on their behalf are going to get killed occasionally.

If a bunch of Pinoys had landed off Eluanbi, snared some Sika deer, carried the carcasses back to their boats, and then fled from the police while attempting to ram a police boat in their boat and been shot, no one would have complained about "excessive force". That is exactly what is going on here, in my view based on the current evidence.

Hopefully the video will settle this, though I expect the local Taiwanese nationalists will claim it was doctored if it doesn't show what they want it to show.

Michael

michalthim said...

@daiwanlang

You say "THere were about 50 bullet holes found on the ship, so if you end up with 50 bullet holes on the ship, how many did the PCG actually fire? More likely 2-3 times the number. All that ammo just to disable the engine? You're kidding right? You honestly believe that?"

Bear in mind that both ships were moving and automatic weapons were used (although i suppose that their rifles were in semi-auto mode)...so the number of bullet holes is not that shocking as it is played on Taiwan's side.

Also, I find your conclusion a bit strange. If you acknowledge that those fishermen were indeed poaching in PH waters then how do you conclude that PCG is ultimately at fault. If policeman shot a burglar, he may face some disciplinary punishment if the use of weapon was not necessary but the ultimate responsibility for his dead would be on burglar's side.

Mike Fagan said...

@daiwanlang

The other thing that ought to be borne in mind is the nature of firearms. Shooting accurately at a discrete target (the engine room) on a moving vessel, from a moving vessel is going to be rather difficult, however good one's training is. Nobody familiar with the concept of probability is going to seriously attempt such a task using weapons that allow only single, discrete shots rather than multiple volleys. That so many of the bullet holes were in and around the engine room indicates that they were reasonably proficient marksmen in that type of scenario.

paco said...

so the fishing boat was just happily fishing in their own seas and the PCG showed up and just started shooting and gave chase for four hours, and when the ship was finally disabled, the filipinos-with full intent to murder these fishermen, left the rest of the crew unharmed?

and the only casualty was hit by one bullet?

how does this make sense?

Anonymous said...

http://www.forbes.com/sites/ralphjennings/2013/05/21/why-taiwan-wont-let-the-philippines-off-easy/


"What got into us, asked George Tsai, Taiwan Foundation for Democracy vice president and professor at Chinese Cultural University in Taipei.

Here’s what: Taiwan president Ma Ying-jeou and his people don’t want to be bullied from abroad anymore. China has pushed Taiwan onto the geopolitical sidelines through fast economic growth, and people on the island have had enough. The Philippines, being poorer and militarily weaker than Taiwan, was an easy target.

“The people think we are owed, unfairly treated,” Tsai told me this week. “Then we think ‘my goodness a backward country like the Philippines dares to hurt us.’”

daiwanlang said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Michael Turton said...

That so many of the bullet holes were in and around the engine room indicates that they were reasonably proficient marksmen in that type of scenario.

Yes. I suspect that was done by the the Phils machine gunner who was competent, while the fisherman was killed by a rifleman who was much less practiced.

Michael Turton said...

Daiwanlang, you can post whatever rational arguments you want here, but personal attacks I simply won't accept.

Robert R. said...

Yes. I suspect that was done by the the Phils machine gunner who was competent, while the fisherman was killed by a rifleman who was much less practiced.

Wasn't the fisherman killed while hiding in the engine room? Or is that just what the PCG claims? (Or am I totally misremembering this? I haven't been following particularly deeply)

Michael Turton said...

Engine room is in center, machinery in rear spaces. Hits on the rear could disable rudder, drive shafts, which is why they fired there. The dead fisherman was hit by a single bullet.

Brian said...

"I didn't shoot until I saw the white of his eyes" -- Funny!!