Friday, August 15, 2008

Momentous News

First, Chinese language press is reporting that Chen Shui-bian and his wife are leaving the DPP (UDN):
前總統陳水扁今天發表退黨聲明表示,民主進步黨承擔了多少人共同的夢想與苦難,但他犯了錯,做了不應該做的事,深感愧疚與自責;宣布即刻起與太太吳淑珍退出民主進步黨。
UPDATE: AFP in English. Note on that: Prosecutors found receipts for a ring, because the new accounting rules, instituted specifically for Chen as a way to reign in his authority, said he had to submit receipts for secret expenditures. No, I kid you not. So apparently they simply submitted any old receipt. No, I kid you not.

...and this very same day AP reports that Taiwan is not going to attempt to join the UN, but will instead attempt to gain representation in UN agencies. Ma has totally rolled over for China; let's see if they give him any crumbs in return.

32 comments:

Anonymous said...

Ma is also saying he is considering increasing aid to Paraguay which means he's full of the shit that he's always been full of.

Thomas said...

So what will this do for his popularity I wonder. He knows very well that this is not what most Taiwanese want. The whole debate before was over what name to use, not whether to attempt to join or not.

I had thought that he would be more saavy at least rather than attempting to give up the ship in the first year. I don't think the economy is about to improve anytime soon, so he doesn't have any feel-good factor to fall back on either.

On a personal note, I see Ma as test for the Taiwanese. How far will he go in too little time before he really makes the man on the street angry and not just unhappy?

STOP Ma said...

.
.
.
MY Canadian government seems to be totally clueless about the PandaMa surrendering as well...

Canadian envoy encouraged by improved cross-strait relations


And, speaking of Pandas. The two named "reunite" will be heading for Taipei very soon.

Chinese pandas may arrive in Taipei by October

All that needs to be done is to raise the Chinese flag over Taipei.
.
.
.

Arty said...

On a personal note, I see Ma as test for the Taiwanese. How far will he go in too little time before he really makes the man on the street angry and not just unhappy?

Don't worry, if US government will finally allow the banks to fail this year(please do because it is the American way and the right way). I fully expect our Fed to let the bank go somewhere around end of September/October. I will expect Taiwan economy to crash (due to us) and to show improvement by end of next year. Of course, everything is off if we decide to do what Japanese did.

Oh forgot to mention, the special fund for the president is what % of the 30 million dollars in a SINGLE Swiss account...you haven't seen the majority of the money Chen took. You can quote me on this later on ;). I smell RICO in the US.

Anonymous said...

The KMT is rolling over for their overlords just as we feared. Now that the election slogans, spins, and outright lies are no longer necessary, we're seeing the real KMT.

Arty said...

One more thing to add about Michael's comment on the timing. Now, it is reported on the news that Switzerland gave the request for investigation on Chen to our representative in Switzerland a MONTH ago. The representative, 劉寬平 (an American citizen; talk about DPP hypocrites), was personally appointed by Chen this February, and he did not deliver the request for A MONTH. Chen's son and daughter in-law (whose name was used on the Switzerland account), left Taiwan on the 9th this month. I guess Michael could no longer use the line that how DPP will always face corruption charges and go to jail while KMTs like to run away oversea in the future anymore!

Michael Turton said...

I guess Michael could no longer use the line that how DPP will always face corruption charges and go to jail while KMTs like to run away oversea in the future anymore!

ROFL. Right. Because one DPPer who runs away balances hundreds of KMTers who do so.

Michael

Michael Turton said...

However, thanks for the information on timing. What paper is that from?

Anonymous said...

All I can say is, not matter what the man did... and if he broke the law he should be punished...but the policies he backed were far more correct than the current leadership and that is why he got our support, so I am embarrassed and ashamed of the man... but proud to have stood behind the people who are fighting for Taiwan.

I now want to know why the DPP did not come out with a stronger admonishment to put distance between themselves and Chen.

Anonymous said...

This is from 自由時報:
"江昭儀建議陳水扁,最好可以切腹自殺來謝罪。"
http://iservice.libertytimes.com.tw/liveNews/news.php?no=116439&type=%E6%94%BF%E6%B2%BB

http://iservice.libertytimes.com.tw/liveNews/news.php?no=116386&type=%E6%94%BF%E6%B2%BB

http://www.libertytimes.com.tw/2008/new/aug/16/today-fo5-4.htm

"Irrational" supporters of DPP enabled Chen to have zero fear to do what he pleased. The DPP today is not the same DPP that was started by 施明德 、許信良 & etc. In the past 8 years, clowns who have "control" of DPP and enjoyed the power were nowhere to be found when the likes of 施明德 、許信良 were in jail. When DPP was in power, Chen used people who could help him A錢 and basically pushed out the old timers who sincerely had a vision for Taiwan.
DPP politicians often use foul and vulgar language openly to attack opponents- I still remember Mr. 莊國榮的"幹、女兒" or 陳唐山的 "捧 LP (think dick)" and those were pretty sick language for us Taiwanese who actually speak and understand "Taiwanese". DPP politicians often equate love of DPP as love for Taiwan which sounds just like the Communists. DPP basically adopted their play book from Mao: anyone who dared to voice different opinions 就被鬥倒、鬥臭 and anyone who dared to question Chen or DPP was branded as 中國豬、賣台. DPP is no longer for democracy. DPP should stand for Dumb People Party as of today. DPP clowns can't even acknowledge that KMT did save Taiwan from the communist so that they could enjoy the fruits of "democracy" and power. Mr. M.T. thinks that Americans saved Taiwan from the Communists... yea..right.. Americans fought with the S. Vietnamese against Viet Con and we all know what happened to S. Vietnam and the American defeat. KMT army saved Taiwan from the communist in 823炮戰, not Americans. KMT set the right economic policy that led to the economic growth. All we got from DPP were a bunch of clowns who couldn't wait to rip Taiwanese off and still say to us "I did it for YOU; I laundered $30M USD (or $20M or whatever- you pick a number) to Switzerland for YOU- my fellow Taiwanese"… hahahaha only dumb people will still buy that line of bs.

Thomas said...

"I guess Michael could no longer use the line that how DPP will always face corruption charges and go to jail while KMTs like to run away oversea in the future anymore!"

Note that neither Chen nor his wife ran away. As for his son and daughter-in-law, lets see what happens. They obviously left because of this situation. But it is a bit premature to say that they won't return for a trial and won't go to jail.

Ben said...

On the UN issue, as clearly any application to join outright would fail (as it has every time for 16 years), then perhaps gaining some kind of participation is a more pragmatic approach, which will get at least some of the benefits for Taiwan, instead of being entirely excluded.

There is also perhaps a different strategy going on here...instead of the grandstanding, all-or-nothing approach of the previous government, which didn't get anywhere, maybe taking small steps is a better way to achieve things. And ultimately, lots of small steps can, over time, add up to bigger changes, just not in one hard-to-swallow (for China) chunk.

Of course, the problem is that if the KMT government were to officially say that this is their strategy, then China would probably block even these small changes.

Thomas said...

Anon, you are not even worth responding to. I myself won't be doing it in the future as you seem to lack the ability to 1) present information clearly or 2) speak rationally.

Anonymous said...

施明德這種人才真正能代表台灣精神的漢子. My hope for DPP was totally dashed when DPP attacked Mr.施 for voicing questions about Chen instead of rationally looked at what Chen has done. 陳阿扁、吳阿珍最不要臉就是已經貪了那麼多億了,竟然連那一千多萬的國務機要費都不放過!! 而DPP最令人失望的就是 circeld around 陳阿扁and attacked the DPP pioneers like 施明德、林濁水、吳文忠 when they dared to question Chen. DPP活該被泡沫化啦.

http://tw.news.yahoo.com/article/url/d/a/080816/2/1472m.html
"施明德:還有「更大條的」會爆發:

前總統陳水扁坦承將鉅款匯海外並宣布退出民進黨,倒扁總指揮施明德昨表示,民進黨早該宣布開除陳水扁;他也預期,應該還有「更大條的」會陸續爆發。

施明德前年籌組紅衫軍發動倒扁,昨天受訪時語氣激動,強調看到轉播陳水扁新聞後,簡直吃不下飯,當場摔筷子。

他還說,陳水扁把責任推給吳淑珍,「這像一個男人嗎?我已經沒有辦法再用任何言詞講他」。"

Like I said Chen had no guts to declare independence and still has no guts to take responsibility for the money laundering scheme.

Anonymous said...

"Anon, you are not even worth responding to. I myself won't be doing it in the future as you seem to lack the ability to 1) present information clearly or 2) speak rationally."

Whatever... like I stated: DPP is now officially Dumb People Party and I certainly don't expect DP to read Chinese or to see other points of view. 啊...偶也沒說你是DP啦,你自己要「對號入坐」承認自己是DP, 偶也沒辦法啦.

Stusta quo is the best option for Taiwan right now. DPP and Chen's proclaimed love for Taiwan (愛台灣) is a big joke at best.

Anonymous said...

"捐錢給民進黨的人,一夜變豬頭
蔡主席不要再向外募款了, 很丟臉
直接去找扁珍施捨一點,反正那也是人民的納稅錢"

悲哀喔~~

Anonymous said...

The bottom line is that this new Chen financial probe yet again highlights that the DPP and KMT are no different to each other - they're as corrupt, and as unholier than thou as each other. But really out of this new incident I really pity the Taiwanese public. With these two parties being the best in the shop window it's no wonder the Taiwanese have such a pessimistic future in front of it. As much as Ma might be making of stuff up of things, the latest Chen incident will further prove to many how unelectable the DPP are.

Anonymous said...

扁密帳/「金」山一角 施明德:某企業家就給了扁近28億(2008/08/16 12:44)

前總統陳水扁海外擁有的2000萬美元鉅款到底是從何而來?又是如何匯出?前民進黨主席施明德16日痛批,扁匯出去的錢不只這2000萬美元,這些錢還是企業供養的,而且是從國外直接轉帳匯入扁家帳戶。

施明德表示,台灣人的奮鬥史都被陳水扁全家給毀掉了,扁家匯出去這麼多錢,國務機要費這種小錢還要拿,大家可能覺得2、3千萬美元已經很多了,但對陳水扁家族來說,可能覺得這只是鼻屎大的錢吧!

其實,在陳水扁坦承2000萬美元國外鉅款是由夫人吳淑珍偷偷匯出,施明德就曾氣得痛罵,還摔筷子,施明德更認為,目前爆出來的金額,只是冰山一角,當初挺扁的人應該要深切反省,而且必須向當時的倒扁團體道歉。

施明德16日更進一步指出,陳水扁說錢是在2007年2月匯出,如果是這樣,一定會有匯款單,匯款單在哪呢?況且吳淑珍是殘障人士,怎可能去匯款?他認為,這些鉅款應該是企業供養的錢,而且是直接從國外轉到扁家帳戶,扁家帳戶也不只這2個,一定還有更多帳戶未爆光。

施明德甚至向媒體爆料,之前有位工商界重量級人士就告訴他,2次金改中,有企業家當時就給了阿扁27、28億元,因此,施明德認為,扁家所拿的錢還不只這些,這只是冰山一角。

Richard said...

No guts to declare independence? Perhaps it was his consideration of all interested parties that he did not unilaterally declare independence.

With that same reasoning, does Ma have no guts to announce unification plans, because it is their eventual goal to do so.

anon, your rationale is so off base on all accounts. "DPP clowns can't even acknowledge that KMT did save Taiwan from the communist so that they could enjoy the fruits of "democracy" and power." Really? White Terror, read about it.

Haitien said...

My hope for DPP was totally dashed when DPP attacked Mr.施 for voicing questions about Chen instead of rationally looked at what Chen has done.

The last couple of years have seen both parties display a complete lack of rationality. Had the KMT actually behaved as a responsible opposition party following the Nuke 4 issue in 2001 and the years that followed, instead of simply opposing everything the executive branch proposed irrespective of context, they would have had significantly more credibility by the time the first signs of the corruption scandal emerged, and Mr. Shih's movement, closely aligned with and supported by the KMT, would have been seen as much more than a cynical political ploy. The abdication of responsible government was very much a two way street.

This in no way excuses what Chen did. If true and proven beyond a reasonable doubt through judicial process, Chen should bear the full responsibility of his actions. And as someone who tends to find himself in agreement with the DPP on more than a few issues, no one is more outraged than I am at his behavior.

Anonymous said...

"前總統陳水扁今天發表退黨聲明表示,民主進步黨承擔了多少人共同的夢想與苦難,但他犯了錯,做了不應該做的事,深感愧疚與自責;宣布即刻起與太太吳淑珍退出民主進步黨。"

挖勒,退黨有個屁用,退錢咖實在啦。九億全吐出來啦!!
做八年總統可以貪到吃三代,還有外國人挺他,太誇張了。

Haitien said...

KMT army saved Taiwan from the communist in 823炮戰, not Americans.

From http://www.trumanlibrary.org/whistlestop/study_collections/korea/large/week1/kw_22_1.htm , dated June 27, 1950

"In addition 7th Fleet will take station so as to prevent invasion of Formosa and to insure that Formosa not be used as base of operations against Chinese mainland."

"Seventh Fleet is hereby assigned to operational control CINCFE for employment in following task hereby assigned CINCFE: By naval and air action prevent any attack on Formosa, or any air or sea offensive from Formosa against mainland of China."


Yes, the KMT army was in Kinmen in 1958 - because the US 7th Fleet was in the Strait in 1950, ensuring that Mao and CKS stayed where they were.

Arty said...

ROFL. Right. Because one DPPer who runs away balances hundreds of KMTers who do so.

Actually there are two here. However, you do know this is just the beginning right. Some of those involved are already in the US and other places. Trust me, my family is very social in the US Chinese community, and pretty much know both sides and who is guilty :).

First picture is the letter to Taiwan

http://tw.news.yahoo.com/article
/url/d/a/080816/5/147cq.html

and just for you! I will use pro-green source.

http://tw.news.yahoo.com/article/
url/d/a/080815/11/1462m.html

http://www.libertytimes.com.tw/
2008/new/aug/16/today-p1-2.htm

Taiwan news has one, too.

some you so call blue source...

http://tw.news.yahoo.com/article/
url/d/a/080815/1/1454e.html

http://tw.news.yahoo.com/article/
url/d/a/080815/58/1458h.html

Or I can just say: It is a well known news, why you don't just google it yourself.

So after you got a letter from the Switzerland government, saying your former President has a lot of dirty money in its bank. What do you do? You hold for two weeks (according to the liberty time, pro-green, no?), and send the letter through snail mail to Taiwan. Fax will take less than 10 mins and you can send the original later. Better yet, covert to pdf and send it over email while mailing the original.

Note that neither Chen nor his wife ran away

They tried. Do you know his wife applied for the US visa while asking to have her traveling restriction lifted just a few weeks ago...too bad it is DENIED.

Also, I guess you guys haven't realized that Chen's son and daughter in-law didn't even want to AIT to get a VISA. Yet, the news reported that they are in New York as of today :P. Btw, keep defending Chen, I love people digging their own graves.

Anonymous said...

You all notice the KMT legislature, in the midst of rounding up a lynch mob for Chen Shui Bian, will not pass a law to regulate special allowance funds. If they did it would eliminate their very reason for entering politics.

Anonymous said...

"Seventh Fleet is hereby assigned to operational control CINCFE for employment in following task hereby assigned CINCFE: By naval and air action prevent any attack on Formosa, or any air or sea offensive from Formosa against mainland of China."
Yes,the KMT army was in Kinmen in 1958 - because the US 7th Fleet was in the Strait in 1950, ensuring that Mao and CKS stayed where they were.

對啦,都是老美的功勞啦,真是笑死人了. So... how many GI Joes did America send to Vietnam? How many years did Americans fight in Vietnam? What was the outcome of Vietnam war? If Americans are so great and was Taiwan's savior, why did they lose to the Viet Con? You think a fleet patrol was enough to hold the Commie back?

I am a "Taiwanese" and I think it's basic human decency to give credits to people, whether it was KMT or 那些老芋頭, who actually did make significant contribution to Taiwan by keeping the Communist China out of Taiwan, set policy that developed Taiwan and eventually paved the way for democracy.
If you think that Americans did so much to "defend" Taiwan by sending oen freaking US 7th Fleet to the Strait in 1950, what about all those KMT soldiers who did die in Kinmen in 823炮戰. Let's have some decency and admit that without KMT, Taiwan would already been taken by China in 1950 and DPP clowns like Chen will still be 三級貧戶 today. I don't know what kind of Taiwanese you are, but I was taught at young age that:
一支草一點露
對人"愛"感恩啦

DPP politicians are the most ungrateful lot I have ever seen.
228, so what a few hundreds died in 228. Millions were killed by Mao during his rule and Taiwanese were spared, because KMT army defended Taiwan, regardless of their motive was to use Taiwan as a base to return to China. KMT did contribute to Taiwan. But then do you really think DPP cared about people who died in 228? 228 is just another tragedy that had NOTHING to do with DPP and Chen shameless used in his campaigns to win elections. He never cared about 228.

Haitien said...

對啦,都是老美的功勞啦,真是笑死人了. So... how many GI Joes did America send to Vietnam? How many years did Americans fight in Vietnam? What was the outcome of Vietnam war? If Americans are so great and was Taiwan's savior, why did they lose to the Viet Con? You think a fleet patrol was enough to hold the Commie back?

I am a "Taiwanese" and I think it's basic human decency to give credits to people, whether it was KMT or 那些老芋頭, who actually did make significant contribution to Taiwan by keeping the Communist China out of Taiwan, set policy that developed Taiwan and eventually paved the way for democracy.

The 7th Fleet alone might not have been enough, but the US intervention in the Strait in the midst of the Korean War led to the signing of the US-ROC Mutual Defense Treaty, paving the way for the military alliance and increased US aid and intervention.

I too believe in giving credit where credit is due, which is why I was pointing out the flaw in your assertion that the KMT was solely responsible for the security of Taiwan during the Cold War years, which somehow excuses them of blame for their misbehavior during that era. There is little doubt that many ROC pilots and soldiers died in the 823 Artillery Duel, and many ROCAF pilots risked their lives fighting Chinese MiGs on combat air patrol in the skies over the Strait. There is also little doubt that the soldiers in Kinmen would not have held out for very long without US naval patrols keeping the supply lines to Taiwan open, as well US supplied artillery and armor (trying looking up "金門之熊" some time); and the flyboys would not have had much to do without access to some 320 US supplied F-86 Sabres used to keep the skies over the Strait clear. And the Chiang would not have been much use in securing Taiwan had the US not maintained constant pressure on him to dissuade him from actually reinvading China.

No where did I state that the US deserves all the credit, and the fact that you assumed I did says more about you than it does me. I assure you that while I do not overlook the contributions of the ROC's armed forces (of which many of my family members served in), I find it rather disingenuous of you to imply that direct and indirect US support was not a major factor in the survival of Chiang's regime through the 50s, 60s, and 70s, just as it was for many Western aligned states even to the present day. Just ask the Georgians.

For all his canonization as 自由的燈塔, CKS had little interest in democratization, and in fact cost Taiwan any meanful sort of representation in the international community by his stubborn refusal to accept a UN seat as anything other than China. CCK, to his credit, saw the writing on the wall by the 1980s, that any further foreign support would be unattainable without political liberalization, and started the wheels rolling on that, which was continued and finalized under Lee Teng-hui who took the necessary step of dismantling the party-state.. which was constantly opposed by the KMT's conservative wing, and was eventually expelled for his troubles. Much of the work towards democratization happened more in spite of most of the KMT than because of it.

And for Taiwan's democracy today I'm grateful to the soldiers who fought on the front lines, the US who provided the means with which to fight, and the dissidents and democracy movement members whose bravery made the country one worth fighting for.

I don't know what kind of Taiwanese you are, but I was taught at young age that:
一支草一點露
對人"愛"感恩啦


My die hard KMT parents taught me to love my town, my country, and The Party. I'd say achieving 2 out of 3 is pretty good, and I really don't miss the last one anyhow.

DPP politicians are the most ungrateful lot I have ever seen.
228, so what a few hundreds died in 228. Millions were killed by Mao during his rule and Taiwanese were spared, because KMT army defended Taiwan, regardless of their motive was to use Taiwan as a base to return to China. KMT did contribute to Taiwan. But then do you really think DPP cared about people who died in 228? 228 is just another tragedy that had NOTHING to do with DPP and Chen shameless used in his campaigns to win elections. He never cared about 228.


Considering how members of the Tangwai (黨外) movement who eventually came to form the DPP were hounded, persecuted, and even murdered by the same KMT party-state that carried out 228, I'd say they have plenty of reason to be concerned. And seeing no one has still been held accountable for the crimes of that era, I'd say that it is still unfinished business, despite Ma apologizing for the KMT earlier this year. President Ma's statement on the subject of Chen's recent apology can just as easily be applied to the KMT and the White Terror, to paraphrase him: "不是光道歉就可以了事"

Thomas said...

"Let's have some decency and admit that without KMT, Taiwan would already been taken by China in 1950 and DPP clowns like Chen will still be 三級貧戶"

I don't think the KMT's firepower at the time ever was in question. But if you can't see the staying role that the US has had on China in the last few decades, then you are blind. There is a reason for their double-digit military expenditures, and it is not so that China can fight the KMT.

Furthermore, you expect one aspect of the KMT's rule in Taiwan (the fact that their military at least gave the Chinese pause before attacking) to outweigh decades of authoritarianism and colonialism. You may feel these are equal. Luckily, most Taiwanese are not as blind as you.

Richard said...

While you may be right in that many of us do not have direct family involved in the 228 incident, you should know that the 228 incident was the beginnings of the Tangwai movement as stated already. If you cannot see this, I suppose you should hit the books again. I assume you are one of those people that claim the Taiwanese language is just a tool that the DPP use inappropriately to gather its troops-- but the reality is that the 228 incident, Taiwanese language, and the uprising against the authoritarian rule of the KMT are all deeply intertwined. You cannot speak about the history of the Taiwanese language without discussing the 228 incident, nor can you dismiss the importance of the Taiwanese language as a symbol of being "anti-KMT." And let me be clear, the promoting of the Taiwanese language does not mean you are automatically DPP, but historically the Taiwanese language has and perhaps will be continued to be viewed as an anti-KMT action.

Anonymous said...

The delegation led by President Ma Ying-jeou (馬英九) on a state visit to the Dominican Republic — one of the nation’s allies — was referred to as “China, Taiwan” on embassy signs used to identify it.

An official with the embassy told the Taipei Times the signs were produced by the office as had been done in the past.

The flags of both countries were placed at the top of the signs, with the words “Special Mission” and “China, Taiwan” printed in Spanish underneath.

Ma’s delegation arrived in Santo Domingo late on Friday night and left yesterday morning. During their stay, members of the delegation were transported through the city in vehicles bearing the signs.

At the El Embajador hotel where the delegation spent two nights, a signboard bearing the words “embassy” and “China-Taiwan” were placed outside of conference rooms used by members of Ma’s delegation. Ma visited the Dominican Republic to attend the inauguration of Leonel Fernandez, who was sworn in for his third presidential term. Ma also held a bilateral meeting with Salvadoran President Elias Antonio Saca in a conference room with the title hanging on the outside wall.

Ambassador to the Dominican Republic Tsai Meng-hung (蔡孟宏) agreed to a press conference to answer media questions about the signs, but did not turn up.

An embassy official initially told the Taipei Times that the placards on the vehicles were too small to include even the country’s abbreviated official title in Spanish, “Rep. De China.”

http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/front/archives/2008/08/18/2003420711

Anonymous said...

Jesus, spitfire "anonymous," you haven't throttled back, despite the cogent comments Thomas, haitien, Richard and others have given you. You're holding to your ridiculous association between the Seventh Fleet in the strait and the US in Vietnam. And look yet again at this piece of cretinism you wrote:

"If you think that Americans did so much to "defend" Taiwan by sending oen freaking US 7th Fleet to the Strait in 1950, what about all those KMT soldiers who did die in Kinmen in 823"

No one argues that those soldiers didn't seriously help save Kinmen, which is a few kilometers from Xiamen. But how in the hell does that mean they or the KMT saved Taiwan, which is over a hundred kilometers away from China?

And what in the god-fuck could you possibly mean by "one freakin' 7th Fleet"? If you think China with its sampans, junks and patrol boats could have gotten a sizeable-enough invasion force onto Taiwan with the Seventh Fleet there to deter such an effort, then you're far more whacked than Arty is.

This doesn't mean that the KMT didn't have some real firepower, as Thomas agrees. They did, so... so... so... so they were willing to use it and all of Taiwan's resources -- sink Taiwan's economy, if necessary -- to try to get the mainland back. And as haitien notes, the US restrained the KMT in this regard.

Yet you want to give the KMT credit. Well go to it, my man; because you're right about one thing: it is your country.

But a couple questions for you first: Is Arty paying you to write this idiocy so that he can look good in comparison? Because you come off here as a flat-fucked shit-for-brains. And YOU think the US should sell nuclear weapons to Taiwan? Right: let's put nuclear weapons in the hands of people like you. I'd rather give them to the Chicoms themselves, because I know they would merely do the predictable thing: point them at the US. But a person with your kind of logic? Who knows what you'd do with nukes? Maybe you would test one out on Changhua or Jungli. Why? Don't ask ME why. You're the one with the nutbag logic!

Man, do I regret that I wrote something civil to you in a previous thread. I should ahve rad you more carefully here before I did. Your thinking here is close to psychotic.

不藍不綠 said...

"Jesus, blah....blah... blah...blah ............
Man, do I regret that I wrote something civil to you in a previous thread. I should ahve rad you more carefully here before I did. Your thinking here is close to psychotic."


阿彌陀佛,善哉善哉..
多唸點經、多被阿扁和民進黨騙幾次會讓你多長點智慧的.

vin said...

That was me, anon; I forgot to attach my name.

I need to say sorry to you; I can only handle one whack job at a time, and I've already got Arty on another thread. And Arty's type of closed-mindedness is easy for me to understand; yours would maybe take a long, long time to figure out how to deal with.

And life is short. So, unfortunately, I must leave you to enjoy your own mind without any further input from me. Keep chargin', eh? Live it up!