Apologies for the light blogging. I've take a leave of absence from the university for a semester, and the paperwork proved burdensome -- though, like all Taiwan paperwork, once you get those ducks in a row, things zoomed along nicely. So, my income has fallen drastically... if anyone wants to buy a couple of teenagers, they can have 'em for a song...Meanwhile, I've missed the fun with Green Cards...it seems KMT Presidential candidate Ma Ying-jeou once had a Green Card and permanent residency in the US. This has become a campaign issue. From the Taipei Times today:
Democratic Progressive Party (DPP) presidential candidate Frank (謝長廷) said yesterday that his Chinese Nationalist Party (KMT) rival Ma Ying-jeou (馬英九) recently contacted a US official to sort out whether he has a valid US green card.Hsieh said that Ma was now seeking help from the US to vindicate the "lies" he told on the green card issue.
"I know for sure Ma reached a US official. Now Ma needs the US to do him a favor. I hope he will not make any promises unfavorable to Taiwan," Hsieh said.
For the fourth day in a row, Hsieh yesterday continued to question Ma's credibility over the green card issue.
As he promised two days ago, Hsieh disclosed the number of Ma's green card at a press conference. He said the information was provided to him by a supporter, and that Ma was granted a card numbered "A XXX30786" on Aug. 26, 1977, in New York.
There's been "why should anyone care?" commentary flying around, but I think the issue here isn't the Green Card, but the underlying social issue it represents. Recall that when Ma went overseas to study, few Taiwanese were allowed to go. In the bad old days they searched your home and investigated you before they let you out to study abroad, and the KMT employed fake students and students on Party scholarships to spy on fellow students abroad. Ma had one of those scholarships, and has been accused of being a student spy.
The Green Card issue is simply the DPP's way of reminding its audience of Ma's privileged background -- playing, I think, to the working class resentments of its audience.
UPDATE: a couple of good comments below, and this one in an email:
....Rather, I think the DPP is doing something quite a bit more subtle, and highly intelligent. They are pointing out a flaw in Ma's character--his tendency to overreact and become ultra defensive to every conceivable perceived crisis. The green card by itself is trivial, he should have batted that back in their faces with ease. But he completely froze with indecisiveness, and couldn't get his message straight.Thanks for all the great comments, guys. It makes things worthwhile. And another one in the email:
If Ma performs this poorly on such an insignificant issue, something that he should have immediately been able to clear up, how would he respond in a real crisis, with real stakes for everyone in Taiwan? These are precisely the doubts the DPP intends to sow among the undecided. And it worked perfectly. After this dies down, they will confront him with further crises of escalating importance.
This is why I think that Hsieh has to be considered the front runner.
Ma's sisters and kid are all US citizens -- but a common KMT attack on Chen is that he is going to flee to the US. Yet I must remind that Chen had gotten in trouble because of DPP attacks on KMTers for holding Green Cards. As this old article notes:
First: The green card is important in highlighting the double standard held against the DPP. Remember the uproar over Chen's grandson being born in the US? Ma's daughter, a US citizen, can immediately sponsor her parents for immigration to become naturalized US citizens. By the time Chen's grandson could sponsor anyone Chen would be in his late 70's.
A group of Chinese Nationalist Party (KMT) lawmakers ironically mocked the president, saying that he would soon be a "grandfather of an American" if the seven-months pregnant Huang Jui-ching (黃睿靚) did not return to Taiwan.
"We strongly suggest that the president use the presidential jet `Air Force One' to bring Huang back to Taiwan," KMT Legislator Tsai Chin-lung (蔡錦隆) said.
The wrangling over dual nationality of members of politicians' families started back in 2000 when Chen attacked People First Party (PFP) Chairman James Soong (宋楚瑜), whose his son Soong Chen-yuan (宋鎮遠) is a US citizen, during the presidential election campaign.
Chen had said that Taiwanese did not want "a father of an American" to be a president.
[Taiwan]
Ma's green card is indeed an important issue. What is a guy doing with a U.S. essential document running for a political office in another country? Riding the fence, of course. If he really loves Taiwan then he should forego any documents that make him on the path to citizenship in another country.
ReplyDeleteKapeesh?
Michael, I don't know if you are aware, but Ma wasn't originally planning to come back to Taiwan and it took his dad a lot of effort to get him to come back to Taiwan. Privilege is part of it in that how can we trust someone to improve the higher educational system here in Taiwan when he apparently didn't think it was good enough for his kids. Other than his wife, his entire family has left Taiwan--all of Ma's sisters have US passports, with one living in Beijing plus his two daughters have no intention of leaving the US (and have citizenship). His family has much less directly invested in Taiwan than Frank Hsieh or any average Joe in Taiwan who can't decide he's had enough, pick up, and move to another country, even less likely, a very desirable and developed country like the US.
ReplyDeleteBut I think you missed something even bigger than privilege. It's that he was planning to move permanently to the US with the early application for the green card prior to moving to the US in your face supporting evidence of that.
The US doesn't have this problem because naturalized citizens, ie immigrants can't run for president, but imagine the uproar when its revealed that Obama (whose name isn't doing him any favors) once planned to immigrate to Indonesia (well, where Indonesia is a country 5 times as wealthy as the US and seen as a land of freedom and opportunity where the US is under constant threat of invasion by Canada... sorry... something like that).
LOL. I kapeesh, man, but that was years ago. I don't the green card itself will be an issue for voters.
ReplyDeleteI know his whole family has passports, but I didn't realize Ma had been planning to go to the US permanently as well. Too bad we didn't fast track that citizenship application, eh?
I got yet another interpretation in the email today that I think highlights another important aspect of this.
Michael
"Recall that when Ma went overseas to study, few Taiwanese were allowed to go. In the bad old days they searched your home and investigated you before they let you out to study abroad..."
ReplyDeleteUh, so how did Annette Lu manage to get 3 degrees in the United States during the '70s?
troll-boy, FEW does not equal NONE.
ReplyDeletetroll-boy, FEW does not equal NONE.
ReplyDeleteMichael, you keep saying Taiwanese was been discriminated against for going over-sea to study. Would you mind point me to some data, a book back with hard data, or a journal article back with hard data?
Just Curious.
My dad came to USA to study in the 70s. His classmate told him that joining KMT would save a lot of trouble. He didn't and there wasn't any trouble at all.
ReplyDeleteArty, sorry about that. cctang is a well known pro-China troll. I don't know why he pops up here.
ReplyDeleteDiscrimination was built into the system -- to start with, quotas discriminated against Taiwanese. Then there was an extensive surveillance program. Are you not familiar with that period? The provincial quota system that favored mainlanders is pretty well known.
Michael
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ReplyDelete.
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The green card by itself is trivial, he should have batted that back in their faces with ease. But he completely froze with indecisiveness, and couldn't get his message straight.
Pandama not being able to manage himself out of a wet paper bag?!!
I'm shocked!! Shocked, I tell you!!
I'm not sure if this tactic by the greens to expose the obvious vulnerability of Ma's lack of leadership will gain much traction, though. If the Taiwanese haven't discovered yet that this man is a pretty boy who will buckle at the slightest pressure -- they never will.
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I agree that Hsieh's tactic has been effective in highlighting one of Ma's most widely known weaknesses, which is certainly crisis management. As mayor, Ma was fairly lucky. Most of the crises could be foisted on the central government, leaving him plenty of screen time to do the things at which he excels: group calisthenics and brothel raids. But in the end, his response to typhoons, his deer-in-the-headlights stare at the cameras when he visited construction accidents and the like, has clearly shown that crisis is not his element. I think most Taipei residents see him as a great fair-weather politician, but a bit untested in times of difficulty. Even his weird foray to the south demonstrated how awkward he is when not surrounded by middle aged women in love with his marathon thighs.
ReplyDeleteAnother advantage to Hsieh's green card tactic is that he is indirectly criticizing, and therefore distancing himself from, the Chen administration. The media has repeatedly pointed out that Chen's son similarly "fled" the Taiwanese education system to pursue a PhD in the US, and that his grandson came very close to being born there -- his daughter-in-law rushed back just in time to give birth on "native soil," raising questions that giving birth in the US was the original plan. The green card issue therefore allows Hsieh to directly criticize both the inherited privilege of Ma and the "special privileges" usurped by Chen and Co. (or believed to be), putting himself in a slightly better light among the electorate that aren't real crazy about either Ma or the DPP status quo.
But I think Hsieh's move will ultimately fail (or already has). One of the big reasons the DPP were trounced during the latest elections is that people are sick of them making a lot noise about crap that doesn't matter (the CKS legacy), while not having the ability to handle the stuff that does (the economy). Michael has made some excellent points on the blog about why the CKS legacy does indeed matter, how the economy is doing better than is widely perceived, and how many of the current problems are not necessarily the fault of the DPP. But in the end, when your income growth is stagnating and prices are going through the roof, you're going to get pissed off when the ruling party sends out an army of MOE clowns to fight public battles that have no bearing on your quality of life.
Similarly, Hsieh's attacks on Ma's character, valid or not, carry much of the same tone that people are sick of. Add to this the 24-hour new stations, spinning over this issue like whirling dervish for 100+ hours, and people are going to wonder if Hsieh will bring much of the same for the next four years. Meanwhile, Ma's response, although imperfect, did leverage one of his strengths: that calm, genteel tone which contrasts so starkly with the shrill spazzyness characterizing the majority of Taiwanese political theatre. Simply stating that he is talking about the issues, while Hsieh is consumed by personal attacks, does carry a lot of weight when people are fatigued by polarized politics.
As for the over-privileged angle, I don't think that has worked as well as Hsieh had hoped. By harking on Ma's past, Hsieh has inspired the news stations to edit together scores of Ma retrospectives, which end up rehashing his accomplishments rather than speculating on his motivations behind the green card. This has generated a news cycle that spends more time talking about Ma and his accomplishments than it does Hsieh, which could be a big mistake so close to the election.
Jim
Discrimination was built into the system -- to start with, quotas discriminated against Taiwanese. Then there was an extensive surveillance program. Are you not familiar with that period? The provincial quota system that favored mainlanders is pretty well known.
ReplyDeleteSince the subject is so well known, there must be something written in English. Sometimes you thought you know, but there is nothing there to prove it. I am simply asking you for references. Don't forget most of today's DPP members are all former KMT members including Chen he applied twice and admitted twice (he never officially leave KMT.)
Arty, see
ReplyDeleteMendel, Douglas. 1970. The Politics of Formosan Nationalism. University of California Press. CA. pp. 165-169 (Sub-chapter: Pressures against Formosan Students in America).
Peng, Min-ming.1972. A Taste of Freedom:Memoirs of a Formosan Independence Leader.New York, NY. Holt, Rinehart and Winston. pp. 90-105, 232-235,
Wei, Der-shu.2002.Who Joined the Clandestine Political Organization? in Ed. Stephane Corcuff Memories of the Future: National Identity Issues and the Search for a New Taiwan. Armonk, NY, ME Sharpe, Inc. p. 47 (details harrassment).
Also, see Fires of the Dragon and Taiwangate, both of which discuss the surveillance of democracy organizations and Taiwan students overseas. In fact I might be posting Taiwangate/ here soon.
cctang is a well known pro-China troll. I don't know why he pops up here.
ReplyDeleteSo this is NOT a place for decent unbiased political discussion. Damned, Michael you ought to be ashamed of calling yourself defender of democracy. How low class and ugly troll can you go?
Where did that comment come from? How does identifying a longtime pro-China troll as such constitute bias? Or is undemocratic? Are you unfamiliar with the operation of internet forums? All serious forums identify and eliminate trolls -- you will note that I have not banned cctang, merely identified him for readers who do not know him.
ReplyDeleteAll commentary is welcome here, beway, except legally actionable commentary.
Michael
beway, cctang, in every single China-related blog that I have seen him on, has simply existed to pull people off topic. Someone makes a remark critical to China, and cctang comes in with some tangential point to try to draw the conversation off topic and therefore to avoid the real, China-unfriendly issue at hand. This is precisely the type of person who should NOT be allowed to comment on a blog. They don't exist to foster honest communication but to hinder it.
ReplyDeleteThere is a blogger who I see in here sometimes called Trace. He is as blue as they come, but he stays on topic and makes his point, although I would disagree. That, to me is ok. cctang is not.
Sorry Michael, it boils my blood to see people defend such morons.
As for Ma, he is made of paper. Hsieh needs more than this to succeed, but this is something that merits being said. If only he would come out and say it clearly: "Ma, you would be flimsy in a crisis. It is evident now."
Someone said: One of the big reasons the DPP were trounced during the latest elections is that people are sick of them making a lot noise about crap that doesn't matter..., while not having the ability to handle the stuff that does (the economy).
ReplyDeleteHow exactly was your conclusion determined? What hard numbers do you have to support such a claim?
Perhaps people are tired of the political theatre, but you had to have been living under a rock at the back of cave not to notice that DPP was indeed handling government business which was being constantly scuttled by a KMT legislature.
So-called "mainlanders" went to Taiwan. Their offspring went off to the US, really many of them. You will be amazed how many of the Chinese Americans are actually from Taiwan. Remarkably, many of them do not identify with the subset Taiwan, but with the superset China. Why did many of the mainlanders, or their offspring, choose to leave Taiwan? They were well-off people who belonged to the upper-class of Chinese society. Clearly Taiwan was too small for them, and as links between the mainland were forbidden, the US was a better choice for making money and living their fullest potential. Many of them are now American citizen, but they may also hold the ROC passport, as you get it by birth. Fortunately for Pan-Green people, very few of them would return to Taiwan to vote. However, they are now vying for better ties between the US and China, as this article in the LA Times shows: http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/california/la-me-wang2feb02,1,5255857.story
ReplyDeleteI'm Taiwanese American and my parents estimate is around 50% of Taiwanese Americans are waisheng. Waisheng make up only 7-8%, maybe stretching 10% of Taiwan's population. There was SOMETHING going on that screwed up the proportions like that.
ReplyDeleteOn the other hand I am happy to report that other than in LA and parts of New York, many waisheng kids, completely unlike their parents, are fervently pro-Taiwan and pro-independence. Funny what a US education does to people.
Michael,
ReplyDeleteThose articles you quoted are all talking about how Taiwan government at that time tried to pressure the students oversea who by the way probably were using government grants to study oversea.
So since they are oversea, how could you state Taiwan government had forbidden or limited their educations and opportunities. Harvard law cost a lot of money even in the 70s even if you don't count living cost. How about Cornell?
You do know before the 60s we don't even let colored people in the same restaurants, schools, etc. That's discrimination. Of course, this example have nothing to do with this post. :(
Hey Arty,
ReplyDeleteMy aunt's ex-boyfriend was a student-spy for KMT in the early 1980s. Where? The University of Southern California!!!
Peace!
On the other hand I am happy to report that other than in LA and parts of New York, many waisheng kids, completely unlike their parents, are fervently pro-Taiwan and pro-independence. Funny what a US education does to people.
ReplyDeleteSpeak for yourself? I am from either LA and New York. My high schools have total of 10 Asians. From my observation , pro-blues are still pro-blues. Oh, I have the highest degree title you can hold in an education system. The sad thing is that I see there are few Ph.D. students from Taiwan or associated with Taiwan. There are two in my entire graduate department including me (and both are actually US citizen). At my current place (which is post-doc central), I can count the number of Taiwan Ph.D.s with my two hands, and that's because there is a person here also holding the highest academic position in Taiwan.
My aunt's ex-boyfriend was a student-spy for KMT in the early 1980s. Where? The University of Southern California!!!
Wow, I don't even know KMT will put a spy in the forth rank school in the greater LA area. Let me see...Caltech, (UCSD), UCLA, UCIrvine, and USC?? Fifth rank if you counted UCSD (yes, UCSD is the 2nd ranked UC).
American-born children of Taiwanese parentage are receptive to the Taiwan Independence movement and the idea of Taiwan as a national title because they are afraid to be associated with Communist China. Communist China has no electricity and no running water. Shanghai is a clump of tank-guarded straw huts next to the Mao Zedong River.
ReplyDeleteThese kids would jump with fever at any chance to feel different from "Chinese"...until they grow up. From my experiences this is not much more than a "grass-is-greener-over-there" second-home homesick mentality. One other factor is the negative image of China instilled by their parents, waisheng or bensheng.
UCSD and UCIrvine ranked above USC? That's a first hearing from anyone. It would be interesting to see where you are basing this ranking from. Maybe you are ranking this based on your field of study? As for Taiwanese Ph.D.s? They are in abundance, if you attend UCLA, USC, CAL, etc.
ReplyDeleteBut I would have to agree with you on Pro-Blues are Pro-Blues. I had some friends who are second/third generation waisheng Taiwanese. Their arrogance just makes you want to strangle them sometimes. One common example is the usage: "O, if it wasn't for the waisheng ren Taiwan would not be so developed today." And they will throw this to you out of the blue, when you may be talking about totally different topics.
UCSD and UCIrvine ranked above USC? That's a first hearing from anyone. It would be interesting to see where you are basing this ranking from. Maybe you are ranking this based on your field of study? As for Taiwanese Ph.D.s? They are in abundance, if you attend UCLA, USC, CAL, etc.
ReplyDeleteFunny, I am in southern California. Yes, if you trust USNews than UCSD and UCIrvine is not. However, people in the fields usually regard them higher than USC. Even if you believe in USNews ranking, it is still 3rd school in the greater LA area :P.
Where I am right now has three Nobel prize winners. Soon to have the forth one if the rumor is true, I don't see that many Taiwan Ph.D.s. I do see a lot of Chinese ones though. Michael should be able to see my ip, but I am nobody.
Anonymous said... On the other hand I am happy to report that other than in LA and parts of New York, many waisheng kids, completely unlike their parents, are fervently pro-Taiwan and pro-independence. Funny what a US education does to people.
ReplyDeletechanning said... One other factor is the negative image of China instilled by their parents, waisheng or bensheng.
Many of the 2nd generation Chinese-Taiwanese, whom have Chinese parents, that I know of here in the U.S. are very pro-China. You would think that they, after having a taste of freedom when their parents fled to Taiwan with KMT, would be on the side of the country they were born into.