tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10698887.post6019611805536082245..comments2023-10-22T18:25:39.688+08:00Comments on The View from Taiwan: Questions of IdentityMichael Turtonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17974403961870976346noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10698887.post-36419055869006386522009-12-04T18:39:44.541+08:002009-12-04T18:39:44.541+08:00Taiwan belongs to the genuine 'Native Taiwanes...Taiwan belongs to the genuine 'Native Taiwanese Naruwans'<br />who are non-Han .<br /><br />They speak a different language, have a different culture, unique non-Han looks and don't need chopsticks to survive.<br /><br />Alas they are racially discriminated in their own land thus they are called the 'Palestinians of Taiwan'.<br /><br />The UN should grant them their wish to have their own "Naruwan Republic' which will be free of the Chinese KMT, DPP and CCP eternal wars!<br /><br />MasaluAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10698887.post-2485768115006247702009-12-04T10:08:32.960+08:002009-12-04T10:08:32.960+08:00The China Times had two follow-up stories today ab...The China Times had two <a href="http://news.chinatimes.com/2007Cti/2007Cti-News/2007Cti-News-Content/0,4521,50502072+112009120400177,00.html" rel="nofollow">follow-up stories</a> today about the reception of lost Zou from Taiwan Village by Dabang villagers in Alishan.<br /><br />A Zou shaman confirmed the relationship, a gift of NT$100,000 was made by the Deputy Party Secretary of Nanyang City, and the Dabang Zou were told that vast markets for their high-mountain ag products await them in Henan.<br /><br />A 2nd generation mainlander businesswoman is the organizer of these efforts.Michael Faheyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11057491107522344042noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10698887.post-37945594259363111852009-12-04T09:02:29.139+08:002009-12-04T09:02:29.139+08:00I'm Taiwanese, period. I know my ancester came...<b>I'm Taiwanese, period. I know my ancester came from China and I don't need anybody to tell me that. China and Taiwan may have the same root but that does not undo another fact that Taiwan and China are two different countries.</b><br /><br />Then why not Taiwan just declare independence straight-out. Come on let's see it. The reason Taiwan and China are still one country or "status of Taiwan" undefined is because no one in Taiwan has guts to declare independence. Also, how's Chinese ever a ethnic term? Han is an ethnic term, but not Chinese. China simply claims the land and its population is simply secondary to its claim. Yet, there will probably be a War of China Aggression, just like the War of Northern Aggression (most Americans called it Civil war) I keep hearing in the South. Yes, a lot Southerner still won't let go even though they are Americans, and it is simply points of view that matters.Artynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10698887.post-24773072066710197252009-12-04T04:05:15.288+08:002009-12-04T04:05:15.288+08:00@Bit said
You are approaching the point, why China...@Bit said<br />You are approaching the point, why China is so afraid of Taiwan: if you know, that you are ethnic chinese (or from chinese heritage), but to you this does not translate to be a citizen of the great chinese empire (PRC), then... Oh my god!<br />Maybe all of the other chinese people start to think about the same thing: choice! it would be the end of the PRC as we know it. <br />This is why the PRC is so afraid of the issue of Taiwan. Maybe they are of chinese origin, but what the heck? they do not want to be part of the chinese empire anymore.Stefan from Frankfurtnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10698887.post-58424633203558621222009-12-03T18:35:40.124+08:002009-12-03T18:35:40.124+08:00"This line of thinking needs to stop. First, ...<b>"This line of thinking needs to stop. First, it only echoes the point you are arguing against; that ethnic/cultural identity is rooted in primordial origins. This is simply replacing tit for tat."</b><br /><br />Hey Anon, we think a lot along the same lines, and I agree almost completely with your comment. <br /><br />But the mixed blood heritage of many Taiwanese is so convenient a thing to point out because how it just utterly complexifies the CHINESE BLOOD NATION religion to the point that it collapses under its own weight. It is exactly because in their schema, there is only CHINESE, ABORIGINAL, JAPANESE, etc.<br /><br />The whole scam that all the CHINESE PEOPLE need to be part of the same NATION requires purity of blood, and it is easy to prove heterogeneity of blood. Actually that many Taiwanese have Aboriginal ancestry doesn't lead to the conclusion that they are aboriginal. The mythical CHINA BLOOD NATION doesn't know how to compute CHINESE + ABORIGINAL! And it doesn't know what to do with a heterogeneity in the heterogeneity either (a population of CHINESE, CHINESE+ABORIGINAL, ABORGINAL, etc.)<br /><br />Of course, you are right, and even if Taiwanese were relatively homogeneous today and in the past, then true, we still want to avoid the danger of some kind of ethno-racial nationalistic identity.<br /><br />It's just blowing up someone's retarded argument on their own terms. Practical even if not ideal.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10698887.post-32789127545822161432009-12-02T20:37:06.500+08:002009-12-02T20:37:06.500+08:00I'm Taiwanese, period. I know my ancester came...I'm Taiwanese, period. I know my ancester came from China and I don't need anybody to tell me that. China and Taiwan may have the same root but that does not undo another fact that Taiwan and China are two different countries. Most anthropologists probably agree that a country can be formed and developed through integration and assimilation which defines it's culture. There isn't such a thing as pure culture. Taiwan over the last 3 centuries has developed its own culture through colonialisms. Every Taiwanese can tell that their culture has Chinese heritage but that does not exclude the fact that it also has much Japanese influence. I'm sure it also has some portugese ingredient in it as a friend of mine who recently visited Portugal told me that how she was surprised to see the similarity in many ways between Portugal and Taiwan. I'm sure every Taiwanese agrees that our culture is not quite the same as Chinese. I would think as a cultural rich country, China should be proud that Chinese culture has been exported to Taiwan just as Japan of theirs. It puzzles me that while Chinese always claim that how 博大精深 their culture is and proud to be accepted by another country and in the mean time cannot accept the fact that their culture is also taking roots in a peace loving country Taiwan.BITnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10698887.post-42997599209718079432009-12-02T15:02:15.346+08:002009-12-02T15:02:15.346+08:00Michale: Great article; I had a little trouble und...Michale: Great article; I had a little trouble understanding what you mean by modern origin of the story until I checked the websites.<br /><br />On the museum piece: Even though I suspect that the reporter has omitted a large quantity of context, I am tempted to ask, what outside influence caused Cultural Revolution? Lenin and Mao didn't seem to be talking about the same thing with the term "Cultural Revolution."<br />People shouldn't worry that capitalist influence will let their cultural artifacts get lost. Americanization will privatize it. MacDonaldization will mass produce it. Capitalism will only make your cultural artifacts more valuable. They won't smash them, burn them, and then look at those of their contemporary neighbor and then say, "you know what? We had those long ago. We must be your ancestor!" <br /><br />-Anon RandomtrollAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10698887.post-78887437575181846802009-12-02T10:51:50.448+08:002009-12-02T10:51:50.448+08:00"Among the (many) things which vanish in this..."Among the (many) things which vanish in this ethnocentric discourse are the local aborigines, who quietly make up a larger portion of the local population than everyone imagines -- the reason there are so few now is that so many have assimilated to the local Han mores, adopting Han names and fake Han origins for their families -- they have Sinified. The result is the most interesting of today's explorations of identity...."<br /><br />This line of thinking needs to stop. First, it only echoes the point you are arguing against; that ethnic/cultural identity is rooted in primordial origins. This is simply replacing tit for tat. <br /><br />Fact: The majority of people in Taiwan share common ancestors with Austronesian speakers.<br /><br />Fact: Historically, the majority of indigenous peoples were not pushed into the mountains by Han colonization, but rather acculturated and assimilated into contemporary Taiwanese society.<br /><br />Does this make the majority of Taiwanese Aborigines?<br /><br />NO!<br /><br />This is simply part of being Taiwanese.<br /><br />Indigenality and the Aboriginal identity is rooted in a socio-cultural experience of identifying as part of an indigenous community. The experience of being regarded as indigenous or as an Aborigine by a succession of regimes in combination with their reaction to the policies of those regimes creates the experience of being an indigenous person in Taiwan. It takes contact with the "other" to form this identity. Once the roots were forgotten or hidden and the identities replaced by new identities many Taiwanese became "ex-Aborigines". They removed themselves or were removed by changes in government policy form being indigenous and simply became normalized as mainstream. <br /><br />As Homi Bhabha points out in The Location of Culture, “ …the fullness of the stereotype –its image as identity-is always threatened by lack.” (Bhabha 1994: 77). Therefore the exotic is only salient if desired. <br /><br />The discourse to turn the indigenous experience into the mainstream experience neglects the importance and effect of legislated difference that has defined ethnicity and culture in Taiwan and actually mutes the indigenes voice when dealing with discrimination, self-determination and cultural agency. Furthermore, it attempts to mask the phenomenon of cultural change and identity change. <br /><br />By understanding that cultural and ethnic change is a constant process it makes it possible to develop non-primordialist identities where Taiwanese do not have to be Chinese as they have undergone a different experience, the state has defined and rewarded different values and meanings to different symbols and Taiwanese have incorporated different memes into their cultural life. This is where group identities are formed and boundaries crossed and re-crossed. <br /><br />I can not implore you more to get off the Aboriginal blood discourse. <br /><br />The only thing it really demonstrates is the dynamism of human populations in Taiwan, beginning in the 17th century, to create new relationships and identities that are not based on ancestry or culture or blood.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10698887.post-45958690818606483502009-12-02T09:42:02.728+08:002009-12-02T09:42:02.728+08:00Anonymous.. what the hell did you say in your comm...Anonymous.. what the hell did you say in your comment? You don't make any sense!<br /><br />Michael- good article. I'm always curious about Taiwan's aboriginal heritage but there's so little history available in English.Islanderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09027760124467699924noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10698887.post-12209064174586544702009-12-02T09:05:16.587+08:002009-12-02T09:05:16.587+08:00Maybe you could comment on the Golden Horse winner...Maybe you could comment on the Golden Horse winner in the future. My wife watched it online this morning (on a China-based website of all places) and was indeed in tears by the end.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10698887.post-56895411097696587042009-12-01T23:14:19.442+08:002009-12-01T23:14:19.442+08:00About those Reuters bastards, this is what the ver...About those Reuters bastards, this is what <a href="http://www.reuters.com/article/entertainmentNews/idUSTRE5AS27U20091129" title="(Reporting by Ralph Jennings, editing by Mark Trevelyan)" rel="nofollow">the version I saw</a> said [bold emphasis mine]:<br />- - -<br /><i>Taiwanese tear-jerker wins '<b>Chinese</b> Oscar'</i><br>- - -<br /><br />BTW, I took <a href="http://twurl.nl/i4xs1l" title="2009.12.01, 6.05 AM" rel="nofollow">before</a> and <a href="http://twurl.nl/f5prq5" title="2009.12.01, 7.42 PM" rel="nofollow">after</a> screenshots of the BBC article.<br /><br /><a href="http://taiwanmatters.blogspot.com/" title="Taiwan Matters!" rel="nofollow">Tim Maddog</a>Tim Maddoghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16943522529132663780noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10698887.post-64195071363506666262009-12-01T21:39:11.598+08:002009-12-01T21:39:11.598+08:00Re the "mountain people" in Henan pining...Re the "mountain people" in Henan pining for Alishan and Sun Moon Lake, didn't these places only come to prominence during the Japanese colonial era? It is my understanding that Alishan was relatively unknown until the Japanese discovered all the hinoki trees growing there, while the present-day Sun Moon Lake is the result of several hydroelectric projects started by Japanese engineers. Is there some unintended irony going on here?Kaminogehttp://kaminoge.livejournal.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10698887.post-60604880519711544712009-12-01T21:18:00.328+08:002009-12-01T21:18:00.328+08:00But if we let Taiwanese talk about their heterogen...But if we let Taiwanese talk about their heterogeneous history and Aboriginal blood and allow them to define themselves and their culture on their own terms, what will all the conservative anti-China foreigners seeking exoticism and the one true pristine stuck-in-a-piece-of-amber CHINESE CULTURE do?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com