tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10698887.post5196182858121579898..comments2023-10-22T18:25:39.688+08:00Comments on The View from Taiwan: Paper on Parade: Japanese Colonialism and Stature in TaiwanMichael Turtonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17974403961870976346noreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10698887.post-60553985947850139802011-12-23T05:15:18.655+08:002011-12-23T05:15:18.655+08:00I assume the records the authors used made it obvi...I assume the records the authors used made it obvious the race of the men who were measured. <br /><br />Japanese were in Taiwan for a couple of generations, raised big families there. <br /><br />Some schools were Japanese-only, some were more mixed. If all men --including Japanese-- were being measured, and if Japanese were typically taller that Formosans at that time, and if they measured mostly in the cities (where most Japanese lived) then the data is skewed.John Scottnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10698887.post-21995990330705785612008-05-14T16:50:00.000+08:002008-05-14T16:50:00.000+08:00If you talk to enough old people you'll find the I...If you talk to enough old people you'll find the IS a Japanese minority in Taiwan. My wife's grandfather identifies as Japanese because of his education and youth as a Japanese subject. Many old people feel the same.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10698887.post-21713398929681069622008-05-14T12:46:00.000+08:002008-05-14T12:46:00.000+08:00I want to point out that when the KMT came to Taiw...I want to point out that when the KMT came to Taiwan, they deported 20,000 Japanese engineers and their families who remained in Taiwan and wanted to stay.<BR/><BR/>The result of this was that they didn't have anyone who knew how to rebuild a lot of the infrastructure/sugar processing machines that were all imported from Japan. They eventually did it with Taiwanese, but the quality and the time it took to do so was all much worse.<BR/><BR/>Taiwan would be an interesting place demographically with a Japanese ethnic minority.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10698887.post-10529781736362465532008-05-14T10:09:00.000+08:002008-05-14T10:09:00.000+08:00I wouldn't venture to say Japanese colonialism was...I wouldn't venture to say Japanese colonialism was good or bad, but it would be safe to say that the Taiwanese experience as Japanese subjects brought radical changes to Taiwanese expectations and perceptions of their environment. These changes have helped alter the trajectory of post war Taiwanese society and define how Taiwanese view their relationships with each other, their government and the world.. including China. <BR/>This is something that is still often lost to Chinese nationalists when discussing a distinct cultural Taiwaneseness.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10698887.post-45270912445886884042008-05-14T09:58:00.000+08:002008-05-14T09:58:00.000+08:00In Taiwan's case it was the conquering army (KMT) ...In Taiwan's case it was the conquering army (KMT) that did the plundering and destruction of infrastructure. <BR/><BR/>The last major rebellion was in 1930 (Wu she) and the last major non-indigenous rebellion was the Ta Pa ni (1915). <BR/><BR/>From my own interviews and anecdotal evidence, the people of Taiwan were told to listen to the radio for an important announcement. The Emperor announced Japan's defeat and unconditional surrender. People were openly crying and the Police who had bullied ordinary citizens were sometimes subjected to humiliation. The Japanese did their part to leave peacefully, except for one General who proposed a Japanese backed rebellion led by Ku Chen fu. The Japanese high command opposed such measures. <BR/><BR/>Furthermore, many Taiwanese were active participants in their own colonization. This is not uncommon.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10698887.post-36061408822524703382008-05-14T09:21:00.000+08:002008-05-14T09:21:00.000+08:00"it is a fact, which even Japan has reluctantly ad..."it is a fact, which even Japan has reluctantly admitted, that departing Japanese forces buried massive amounts of chemical and biological weapons in China that is still causing injuries and environmental damage today."<BR/><BR/>It is unfair to compare China, which was an unsuccessful attempt at colonisation that never quite made it past a brutal war, with Taiwan. Taiwan was a showcase piece for the Japanese, and the Japanese were there relatively uncontested ("relatively" because there were rebellions from time to time) for 50 years. <BR/><BR/>Lots of retreating armies do nasty stuff: slashing and burning, destroying of infrastructure, etc. It may be true that the Japanese did even nastier stuff in China, but Taiwan was not a territory that they "retreated" from. It was lost at the conclusion of the war, so was meant to be returned to China intact. <BR/><BR/>As for what the Japanese did for Taiwan, I don't think anyone questions their brutality, however, I did read in one Taiwan history book, although I have forgotten the name, that when the Qing lost Taiwan, it was a poor backwater where officials hoped to avoid being stationed. However, at the end of the war, Taiwan was richer than any province of China, and there were many on the island who did not want to be bled dry to rebuild the country.Tommyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13552370490869601403noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10698887.post-75134691461339987942008-05-14T09:14:00.000+08:002008-05-14T09:14:00.000+08:00I still see a fair amount of Japanese built infras...I still see a fair amount of Japanese built infrastructure today. So thats proof enough for me.<BR/><BR/>I also note that a lot of it seems less than adequately maintained? Probably because by now it's long passed it's intended life span.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10698887.post-30769803857856727802008-05-14T06:54:00.000+08:002008-05-14T06:54:00.000+08:00in 1636, Siraya people were reported by the Dutch ...in 1636, Siraya people were reported by the Dutch to be "about a head taller than the average Dutchman". John R. Shepherd in his monograph Marriage and Mandatory Abortion...1995 cites the superior nutrition of the Siraya as a factor in their physical size, as they had access to vast stores of venison. <BR/><BR/>Therefore, Taiwanese may have also had a genetic predisposition to larger size.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10698887.post-83019385998058445302008-05-14T04:36:00.000+08:002008-05-14T04:36:00.000+08:00I think my first question would be a comparative o...I think my first question would be a comparative one: how did the rising height rate in Taiwan compare with Japan, with uncolonized mainland China, with Europe or Latin America? Or with Manchuria and Korea?<BR/><BR/>That the height is rising is one datum, but, as you note, it's fairly meaningless without something to compare it to.Jonathan Dresnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04356112719229675996noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10698887.post-10583788974448484022008-05-14T00:53:00.000+08:002008-05-14T00:53:00.000+08:00This post reminds me of the scene from "The Life o...This post reminds me of the scene from "The Life of Brian" where the militant Judean independence group members were debating "what have the Romans ever done for us?"<BR/><BR/>Most historians agree that the Romans greatly improved the standard of living in Judea and treated the Judeans quite well. Similarly, the British did many good thing for the American colonists (such as financing a war against French encroachment) and the Americans were actually taxed less than the British. But alas, most people (except for Hellenized Jews, American loyalists, Taiwanese Quislings, etc.) tend to frown on their colonial masters no matter how benevolent they were.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10698887.post-13968812032274465342008-05-14T00:42:00.000+08:002008-05-14T00:42:00.000+08:00"the Japanese had imported thousands of poisonous ..."the Japanese had imported thousands of poisonous snakes to the island and let them loose to attack people."<BR/><BR/>My uncle told me the exact same thing when I was a kid but I thought he made it up as he was a gifted storyteller. I'm amazed to see someone else heard the same story. <BR/><BR/>Years ago I read an LA Times article where the Koreans believe a similar story: that the departing Japanese buried structures in Korea to disrupt the flow of "chi" to bring bad luck to the Koreans. <BR/><BR/>While the snakes and bad "chi" stories seem farfetched, it is a fact, which even Japan has reluctantly admitted, that departing Japanese forces buried massive amounts of chemical and biological weapons in China that is still causing injuries and environmental damage today.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10698887.post-92106802575009288082008-05-13T21:21:00.000+08:002008-05-13T21:21:00.000+08:00Funny, I was just talking to a coworker about Japa...Funny, I was just talking to a coworker about Japanese colonial effects on Taiwan. When he told a Taiwanese friend what he had learned, she was aghast that anyone might suggest the Japanese had done anything for Taiwanese... she then cited, as proof, that the Japanese had never done anything for Taiwanese...the FACT that the Japanese had imported thousands of poisonous snakes to the island and let them loose to attack people. <BR/><BR/>Seriously... if you are interested in this kind of stuff... first read George W. Barclay's 1954 report for the JCRR. He sifts through the Japanese numbers and tries to make sense of it. Another good read is Taiwan Under Japanese Colonial Rule, 1895-1945. This book has some great essays on what all those numbers might mean. Lastly, look at Roger Mark Selya's Development and Demographic Change in Taiwan 1945-1995. Selya picks up where Barclay leaves off and corrects some errors. <BR/><BR/>If you're into this kind of thing.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10698887.post-11875679770766783562008-05-13T19:39:00.000+08:002008-05-13T19:39:00.000+08:00It's neither... it's the growth in average height ...It's neither... it's the growth in average height of the population.<BR/><BR/>So it looks like there's a natural cycle anyways, so really the end to growth started around the mid-1930s (1935). Interesting stuff.Jhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17592751713675895474noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10698887.post-8361391903184828502008-05-13T07:47:00.000+08:002008-05-13T07:47:00.000+08:00LOL. It's average height of the population, not ab...LOL. It's average height of the population, not absolute height. Men propose, but genes dispose.<BR/><BR/>MichaelMichael Turtonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17974403961870976346noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10698887.post-9603172899859746832008-05-13T07:38:00.000+08:002008-05-13T07:38:00.000+08:00This was an interesting read, and then I realized ...This was an interesting read, and then I realized something. People in Japan--one of the most highly developed societies--must be really, really tall!<BR/><BR/>...wait a minute...channinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06386334271601532591noreply@blogger.com