tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10698887.post436314180952246701..comments2023-10-22T18:25:39.688+08:00Comments on The View from Taiwan: Obama VictoriousMichael Turtonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17974403961870976346noreply@blogger.comBlogger52125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10698887.post-61078167393826450342008-11-08T09:28:00.000+08:002008-11-08T09:28:00.000+08:00Arty, you accused me of supporting the fire bombin...Arty, you accused me of supporting the fire bombing. You have no evidence to support that accusation, and I did not support the fire bombing.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10698887.post-77322549516804762802008-11-08T00:39:00.000+08:002008-11-08T00:39:00.000+08:00Arty, you have no evidence for that accusation. Fi...<B>Arty, you have no evidence for that accusation. Fire bombing endangers human lives and there is no place for it in Taiwan.</B><BR/><BR/>Did you even read the news? Molotov cocktails were used last night...a little late on the information? Btw, DPP used a lot of Molotov cocktails during the late 80's street movements. Although, I think the situation is a little different this time.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10698887.post-6838144316235902782008-11-07T23:55:00.001+08:002008-11-07T23:55:00.001+08:00Taiwan Echo, I humbly accept the apology an commen...<B>Taiwan Echo</B>, I humbly accept the apology an commend you for it. The internet is usually an anonymous platform, and certainly I am anonymous to you. In such an environment apologies are rarely given. the offer of offer, regardless of the circumstance that prompted it, says wonderful things about you.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10698887.post-35703510039275837002008-11-07T23:55:00.000+08:002008-11-07T23:55:00.000+08:00I'll drop the presidential debate here, as Michael...I'll drop the presidential debate here, as Michael Turton pointed out that the politics get out of hand. But I want to address a couple of personal points. <BR/><BR/>Arty said "I find it hilarious that this statement is coming from someone who is for DPP street movements i.e. fire bombing the police"<BR/><BR/><B>Arty,</B> you have no evidence for that accusation. Fire bombing endangers human lives and there is no place for it in Taiwan.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10698887.post-5398752284879373362008-11-07T23:17:00.000+08:002008-11-07T23:17:00.000+08:00Thomas,The math is quite simple, really. Actuarial...Thomas,<BR/><BR/>The math is quite simple, really. Actuarial tables + past medical history + Sarah Palin = genuine cause for concern. Multiply that by eight disastrous years of a Republican administration, and top it off with smears about your rival's religion, patriotism, alleged terrorist connections ad nauseum, with a dash of visions of "real (read "white") Americans" thrown in, and you get a not-unexpected defeat, even without the benefit of hindsight. <BR/><BR/>Cancer survivors have every right to run for office, and to win. They also have every right to lose, if they run a poor campaign.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10698887.post-86189397667520310222008-11-07T13:21:00.000+08:002008-11-07T13:21:00.000+08:00"This in response to Thomas, who implied that GOP ..."This in response to Thomas, who implied that GOP did not use racist comments in their campaign."<BR/><BR/>To Anonymous, I never said or implied that.Tommyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13552370490869601403noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10698887.post-33408808265626530092008-11-07T13:19:00.000+08:002008-11-07T13:19:00.000+08:00"I'm not aware of any "ageist" comments directed a..."I'm not aware of any "ageist" comments directed at McCain. If there were, they were nothing compared to the insinuations about Obama's religion and patriotism, among other things."<BR/><BR/>Kaminoge, Obama had ads about McCain being to old. Also, that was one of the most frequent complaints about him that I heard from others. They were worried he would die in office. <BR/><BR/>As for his previous bouts with cancer, I just have one thing to say: McCain does not have cancer now. I guess cancer survivors shouldn't hold office either, should they?Tommyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13552370490869601403noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10698887.post-68569329355362674572008-11-07T09:58:00.000+08:002008-11-07T09:58:00.000+08:00Choosing to pal around with terrorists says someth...<B>Choosing to pal around with terrorists says something about character. And I did say character was one of the things McCain talked about - a totally legitimate thing to consider when choosing a president.</B><BR/><BR/>You do know that's why McCain lost, right. Ayers is not a terrorist. I find it hilarious that this statement is coming from someone who is for DPP street movements i.e. fire bombing the police and running barricades, and all the sudden is against it because someone put a "terrorist" tag on it. :) Btw, I am always against such act personally, because I consider them to be populist tactics especially violence is involved.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10698887.post-35425014644131246232008-11-07T08:02:00.000+08:002008-11-07T08:02:00.000+08:00Check out New York Times (today or tomorrow's). T...Check out New York Times (today or tomorrow's). There is a special report of McCain camp dissing Palin. Here are a couple of snippets I have heard: <BR/>1) McCain camp only told Palin to buy 3 suits for the convention, but she went on a $150k shopping spree!<BR/>2) Palin didn't get clearance from McCain's strategists when she went on that stage and started associating Bill Ayers with Obama with statements like "pal around terrorists?"<BR/><BR/>Stay tuned! It's great that Republican didn't win this time, because the right-wing Evangelical nuts are finally losing their grips on the Republican Party. Let the "true" conservatives return to the Republican Party. We care about small government, fiscal conservatism and real policy issues, not the stupid cultural war that the religious right has been shoving down others' throats.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10698887.post-50796994069663497962008-11-07T02:29:00.000+08:002008-11-07T02:29:00.000+08:00"We Americans did ourselves proud today"Ahh yes an..."We Americans did ourselves proud today"<BR/><BR/>Ahh yes and Proposition 8 passed so that was really a bittersweet victory for some Americans. Wouldn't you say Mr. Turton?<BR/><BR/>Obama may have won the election, but we'll see what the next 4 years will bring. <BR/><BR/>I think it rather weird that you say "we Americans" when, not all Americans voted for him, and for a very particular reason.<BR/><BR/>Also, strangely enough, you didn't mention the proposition 8 victory in California, nor the ban on homosexual attempt to redefine marriage in Arizona and Florida.<BR/><BR/>Could it be that even "blacks" know that GOD did indeed ordain marriage?<BR/><BR/>Also "Asian"-Americans were largely against gay marriage as well Mr. Turton.<BR/><BR/>So yes Obama won, but gay marriage lost and I think that's what really mattered to Christians like myself; but at the same time, we have a more "liberal" Congress and leader so it'd be really interesting these next 4 years. As you are an atheist, I'm sure you know what I mean....<BR/><BR/>The number of Chinese Christians is now at about 130 million....and growing...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10698887.post-74194818417776898882008-11-07T01:37:00.000+08:002008-11-07T01:37:00.000+08:00Thomas said... ..."Hey, I just noticed that I don'...Thomas said... <B><BR/>..."Hey, I just noticed that I don't look like George Washington today!"<BR/><BR/>That actually was a problem Taiwan Echo. Which is precisely why after he said it, he never openly mentioned racial differences to appeal to minority crowds again.<BR/>"</B><BR/><BR/>I agree. Do you think his acknowledge of it, by never mentioning it again, indicates his ability to recognize his own weakness and correct it ? <BR/><BR/>Or you would rather see him as the one before he "never mentioned it again?" <BR/><BR/>What I saw on McCain's side is, many analysts say negative attack doesn't work, in fact it works backward, but they kept doing it.Taiwan Echohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17018124148446093746noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10698887.post-19373390570822922032008-11-07T01:17:00.000+08:002008-11-07T01:17:00.000+08:00Readin said... To me it feels like Taiwan and the ...Readin said... <B><BR/>To me it feels like Taiwan and the United States are tracking each other.</B><BR/><BR/>I have always been amazed how similar the politics went in USA and Taiwan in the past few years.<BR/><BR/>However, the similarity stops at the election this year.<BR/><BR/>In USA, Obama is described by many as extremely intellegent. <BR/><BR/>But in Taiwan, both blue and green camps agreed thta Ma Ying-jeou is stupid. <BR/><BR/><B>In USA, Obama's election signals the opening of a new door to human right of Americans.<BR/><BR/>In Taiwan, Ma Ying-jeou's election closes the only one door to the human right of Taiwanese. </B><BR/><BR/>The difference is devastating.Taiwan Echohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17018124148446093746noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10698887.post-53517820396793545702008-11-07T01:09:00.000+08:002008-11-07T01:09:00.000+08:00This in response to Thomas, who implied that GOP d...This in response to Thomas, who implied that GOP did not use racist comments in their campaign. <BR/><BR/>Anybody who followed the campaign could see that stoking fears in the racist core of the GOP was quite definitely a key part of the strategy.<BR/><BR/>Besides Sarah Palin, the other major mistake the GOP made this time was the fact that they based their campaign on very thinly-veiled attacks on Obama's character, and outright questioning of his patriotism (of which the accusations such as "he's a socialist" played a key part). The "where's his lapel pin" brand of superficial patriotism is a hallmark of the GOP.<BR/><BR/>Sure, they also threw in a bit of talk about the war, the economy, Joe the Moronic Plumber/Tax Evader/Gullible Everyman, etc., but it was the character attacks that they were hoping would carry them across the finish line. These were calculated and carefully-worded statements that were intended to make anglo americans afraid of someone who did not look like them. Of course they did not say, "How can a black man be president of the USA??". Instead, they (or she) said, "This is a man who does not see America as you and I see America..", etc. And I and a lot of other people took that for what it was: an attempt to make people afraid of Obama because he is different in terms of his ethnic background, and yes, color. <BR/><BR/>And yes, that is racist, and that's one of the reasons I am so glad the GOP lost this one big-time. <BR/><BR/>As far as what effect it will have on Taiwan...One reason that the USA has been so annoying concilliatory vis-a-vis China for so long is because the USA has no choice in terms of real-politik. That's because for the last 8 years, both America's soft power and military power have been squandered to the extent that there is no longer any point in talking tough if you can't "put your money where your mouth is". Under McCain, that drain of USA's soft and hard power would have continued unabated. Under Obama, maybe it could be re-directed to areas where it could make a real difference (including East Asia, if need be).<BR/><BR/>Scott in 安平 (previously of 士林)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10698887.post-44397841410624685502008-11-07T01:06:00.000+08:002008-11-07T01:06:00.000+08:00readin,I have to apologize -- before I read any of...readin,<BR/><BR/>I have to apologize -- before I read any of your reply to my comment. I could have made the same point without raising anything like "lying." This is a very bad demo of internet manner. <BR/><BR/>Now back to your reply.<BR/><BR/><B>In June Obama said "The choice is clear. Most of all we ... They’re going to try to make you afraid. They’re going to try to make you afraid of me. He’s young and inexperienced and he’s got a funny name. And did I mention he’s black?"</B><BR/><BR/>That sounds like a preventive defense to me. <BR/><BR/>Thanks for spending time on this. I really feel bad.<BR/><BR/><B>Choosing to pal around with terrorists says something about character.</B><BR/><BR/>Now, you are taking Sarah Palin's word without verifying how much she said is valid.<BR/><BR/>What does "pal around with terrorists" mean ? <BR/><BR/>Bill Ayers, the terrorist Palin talked about, had the terror act when Obama was 8 year old. Ayers has been a professor in University of Chicago. Are all students he taught, all faculty in UofC, all "palling around a terrorist?" When any of them run for a position, is it fair to label them "pal around terrorists?"<BR/><BR/>This is one of the worst character assassinations one could ever imagine. This labeling implied that Obama is a terrorist, causing fear among McCain's supporters that they are gonna be ruled by a terrorist-related president. That actually pushes McCain's supporters to an extreme, which in turn polarizes the society. IMO it is one the most society-damaging tactics in this entire campaign.Taiwan Echohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17018124148446093746noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10698887.post-16021796327017646952008-11-07T00:20:00.000+08:002008-11-07T00:20:00.000+08:00Jerome, are you talking about my comment? If so......Jerome, are you talking about my comment? <BR/><BR/>If so...what the heck are you talking about? I am not a US citizen therefore not what you call a Yank. And I am talking about my extreme dislike of prank calls, what the heck does that have to do with Iran? I like both McCain and Obama, and some prank calls from Canada is not going to change my opinion, which doesn't really matter anyway because I am not voting for US president.<BR/><BR/>Imagin yourself getting a prank call while you are taking a nap during the weekend. I would actually consider that a harasment. And for what? Just because some boring people can't come up with jokes themselves and have to call others to make themselves laugh. Some people think they are so smart because they are able to make prank calls, but I would just say they are bunch of assholes.Dixteelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05689510846926854542noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10698887.post-48143273255471249802008-11-06T22:10:00.000+08:002008-11-06T22:10:00.000+08:00Good thing the divisiveness in the comments is now...Good thing the divisiveness in the comments is now over!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10698887.post-9787191479700950092008-11-06T21:45:00.000+08:002008-11-06T21:45:00.000+08:00"To me it feels like Taiwan and the United States ..."To me it feels like Taiwan and the United States are tracking each other."<BR/><BR/>What the heck????<BR/><BR/>The first time Chen got elected, I would see some echoes to Obama. Obama and Chen are the young people here. Ma is Chen's age, but elected 8 YEARS LATER.<BR/><BR/>I hope Obama's presidency goes a lot better than Chen's, but where are these parallels coming from?<BR/><BR/>Although Ma won a huge part of the vote the demographics that support him are so different from Obama's. The oldest and the youngest age brackets supported Hsieh, not Ma. The young overwhelmingly supported Obama.<BR/><BR/>Many artists, musicians, intellectuals, professors, liberals came out, as they traditionally do, for Hsieh and the DPP, not Ma. These are the same strongholds as Obama's, though the comparison isn't perfect.<BR/><BR/>Anyways, I'm not try to make any parallels. I think it's pretty hard to come up with realy good analogies. I'm just pointing out that your parallels are totally whack. There's much more that's broken about your comparison, but there are already so many comments.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10698887.post-55291533839613452392008-11-06T20:21:00.000+08:002008-11-06T20:21:00.000+08:00Thomas wrote:"Racist comments were off limits, as ...Thomas wrote:<BR/>"Racist comments were off limits, as they should have been, but age-ist comments were obviously not. It was ok to imply that an older person should not hold an important job, even if that person is in very good health."<BR/><BR/>I'm not aware of any "ageist" comments directed at McCain. If there were, they were nothing compared to the insinuations about Obama's religion and patriotism, among other things.<BR/><BR/>Nevertheless, age was a valid question in this campaign. In addition to being 72, which meant there would have been something like a 25% chance that McCain would not have lived to see the completion of a second term as president (according to actuarial tables), there was also his past history of cancer. And let's not forget who he chose to be his possible successor as president!<BR/><BR/>Age, unlike race, can be a detriment in these circumstances.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10698887.post-32264650428747004012008-11-06T19:58:00.000+08:002008-11-06T19:58:00.000+08:00For those who supported Obama, congrats! For those...For those who supported Obama, congrats! For those who are passionate about U.S. support for Taiwan, there's reason for guarded optimism. The Taiwan-related attitudes of dozen or so political appointees that will come in with a new administration to oversee Asia policy are in many ways more important than the new president himself. <BR/><BR/>With McCain, we pretty much knew who would populate the key positions inside the bureaucracy. We don't with Obama since he had such a large campaign staff. If Obama or his immediate circle bring in the likes of Colin Powell, Richard Danzig, Jim Steinberg, Kurt Campbell, Richard Bush, Frank Januzzi, Derek Mitchell, Derek Chollet, and Even Medeiros then all will be fine. There are others that could not bode well for Taiwan at all.Taiwan Matters to Americahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13862587837645065600noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10698887.post-3812654053477398982008-11-06T19:20:00.000+08:002008-11-06T19:20:00.000+08:00"Since when saying himself is different becomes a ..."Since when saying himself is different becomes a problem?"<BR/><BR/>When he uses it as a talking point to appeal to a constituency. It is not like he was just making a matter-of-fact comment in a crowd: "Hey, I just noticed that I don't look like George Washington today!"<BR/><BR/>That actually was a problem Taiwan Echo. Which is precisely why after he said it, he never openly mentioned racial differences to appeal to minority crowds again.<BR/><BR/>But the comment itself reveals that Obama is not as post-racial as many would like.Tommyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13552370490869601403noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10698887.post-18361739122269042522008-11-06T18:46:00.000+08:002008-11-06T18:46:00.000+08:001. In this youtube interview (part1 part2), Ron Pa...1. In this youtube interview (<A HREF="http://tw.youtube.com/watch?v=uo29Oa-e61I" REL="nofollow">part1</A> <A HREF="http://tw.youtube.com/watch?v=uqN2EKuXX2g" REL="nofollow">part2</A>), Ron Paul discusses what he believes will be the shock event that will happen around Jan 21. That is, a devaluation of the dollar and the creation of a new global reserve and monetary system. (Note, the link goes to an Alex Jones interview ~ I'll just say don't shoot the messenger, its a worthwhile listen.)<BR/><BR/>Perhaps this is one of the reasons why the KMT has the unification business on track1. We know the KMT did mention they would talk to the CCP about how to weather the coming financial crapstorm together. Perhaps Taiwan, with US$44B in US Treasuries, will be deep binglang spital if the dollar is devalued. Last week they already said they would no longer purchase <A HREF="http://online.barrons.com/article/SB122482470725666021.html?mod=b_hpp_9_0002_b_online_exclusives_weekday_r1" REL="nofollow">US debt</A>.<BR/><BR/>Interestingly, both Biden and Colin Powell mentioned that something "big" will happen soon after Obama is sworn in. There is also a meeting in the EU on Nov.15 to discuss a new banking system. I think I remember reading about bush agreeing to allow the BIS to audit the FED after he leaves office as well.<BR/><BR/>2. It is also interesting to see most Asian markets tank by almost <A HREF="http://finance.yahoo.com/intlindices?e=asia" REL="nofollow">6%</A> today (Nov5). You have to wonder how many millions of $ the ROC.gov just lost trying to prop up the Taiex to 5000 before the Chen YunLin meeting. <BR/><BR/>3. I heard some talk that Laura Tyson may be the next SecTres. Interesting to see that she is a trilaterialist and a CFR'er like Obama's advisors Zbig and Volker. <BR/><BR/>I know this is all rumor and sounds tinfoil, but its something to think about since its coming from Ron Paul, someone who has been right on the money all along.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10698887.post-5474737709024056722008-11-06T18:45:00.000+08:002008-11-06T18:45:00.000+08:00Obama's campaign indeed did run the best campaign....Obama's campaign indeed did run the best campaign. Why? They were able to garner the YHV- the youth hype vote. Without this block of voters, he might not have so easily won. Do I have a problem with youths voting? No, I am a "youth" myself. But, it does irritate me to see the whole college campus jump on the Obama bandwagon and have no idea what his actual policies are. All you needed to know was, Obama is not Bush, Obama is cool, and supporting Obama makes you cool, supporting Republicans makes you uncool.<BR/><BR/>Being a peer to all these youth votes, it's easy to see the clear nod that the college aged kids gave to Obama. Facebook polls showed Obama "votes" getting 75% of the votes, with McCain only getting around 25%. A great campaign he ran, indeed.Richardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13864496921909619980noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10698887.post-20767716271249361342008-11-06T18:01:00.000+08:002008-11-06T18:01:00.000+08:00Google Obama family, and you will know his family ...<I>Google Obama family, and you will know his family is truly multi-racial (not through adoption). Have you ever saw his half sister before, hint she is not black but an Asian.</I><BR/><BR/>The "first family in the White House" is usually thought of the people who actually live in the White House - the candidate, his spouse and his children. For McCain that would include his children. For Obama it would most likely not include his sister, aunt, etc..<BR/><BR/>But my point was more tongue in cheek. McCain's election would have been historic too, but it wasn't talked about the way Obama's was, and McCain did the noble thing by not bringing it up himself.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10698887.post-28376258880305286012008-11-06T17:58:00.000+08:002008-11-06T17:58:00.000+08:00Wo wo wo ... this is out right lie. Prove us with ...<I>Wo wo wo ... this is out right lie. Prove us with any single evidence of your accusations and I will apologize for calling you a lier.</I><BR/><BR/>I said "and without cause accused his opponents of racism,"<BR/><BR/>In June Obama said "The choice is clear. Most of all we can choose between hope and fear. It is going to be very difficult for Republicans to run on their stewardship of the economy or their outstanding foreign policy. We know what kind of campaign they’re going to run. They’re going to try to make you afraid. They’re going to try to make you afraid of me. He’s young and inexperienced and he’s got a funny name. And did I mention he’s black?"<BR/><BR/>It took me a while to find that quote which I remembered him saying. I need to get some sleep so I'll let you research the rest if you want. <BR/><BR/><I>In fact, if you follow the news closely, you would have noticed that it is McCain's camp that, instead of focusing on the issues, attacked Obama's character, labeling him "palling around terrorists".</I><BR/><BR/>Choosing to pal around with terrorists says something about character. And I did say character was one of the things McCain talked about - a totally legitimate thing to consider when choosing a president.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10698887.post-30288196458471570642008-11-06T17:04:00.000+08:002008-11-06T17:04:00.000+08:002) Racist comments were off limits, as they should...<B>2) Racist comments were off limits, as they should have been, but age-ist comments were obviously not. It was ok to imply that an older person should not hold an important job, even if that person is in very good health.</B><BR/><BR/>McCain has had multiple bouts of cancerous melanoma -- one of the worst forms of RECURRING skin cancer.<BR/><BR/>Also, your missing one important element, Thomas...<BR/><BR/>The fact that a complete moron and evangelical nut-job was 2nd in line to the most powerful leader in the free world if McCain would have been elected. She made Bush look like a genius, for goodness sakes!<BR/><BR/>.<BR/>.<BR/>.skiingkowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05381159852660053893noreply@blogger.com