tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10698887.post2930086963528638760..comments2023-10-22T18:25:39.688+08:00Comments on The View from Taiwan: But There Is No Such Thing as the Western Media....Michael Turtonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17974403961870976346noreply@blogger.comBlogger36125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10698887.post-91854811719533063962009-05-20T21:51:09.431+08:002009-05-20T21:51:09.431+08:00.I thought Gen Ando, Japanese Governor-General of ...<I>.I thought Gen Ando, Japanese Governor-General of TW handed things over to Gen Chen, CKS's appointed Governor-General of TW in Taipei on 10/25/1945.</I>Japanese troops in Taiwan were ordered to surrender themselves to the ROC. However, a military surrender of troops and control over an area is different from a formal transfer of sovereignty over territory. <br /><br />There are various legal arguments about what happened. Some argue that the surrender did transfer sovereignty due to other documents that were signed. Some argue that the surrender was just to put the ROC in control until formal arrangements could be made, and that those arrangements were under international law supposed to be made following the principles of self-determination.Readinnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10698887.post-82995947496683786762009-05-20T09:34:13.675+08:002009-05-20T09:34:13.675+08:00No, Taiwan wasn't "retroceded." That's an ROC prop...<I>No, Taiwan wasn't "retroceded." That's an ROC propaganda claim. Taiwan remained Japanese until April 28, 1952, when the 1951 San Francisco Peace Treaty went into effect.</I>I thought Gen Ando, Japanese Governor-General of TW handed things over to Gen Chen, CKS's appointed Governor-General of TW in Taipei on 10/25/1945.<br /><br />I don't claim that I am correct in this, but most history I've seen about this states this to be the case. Whether it was ROC or Jap at the time (1949), it certainly wasn't PRC.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10698887.post-4798034047560854272009-05-20T08:54:09.287+08:002009-05-20T08:54:09.287+08:00I guess I missed it. What exactly is FOARP being ...I guess I missed it. What exactly is FOARP being called a troll for?Readinnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10698887.post-54414248052182039142009-05-20T08:18:31.600+08:002009-05-20T08:18:31.600+08:00"so any major pro-reunification KMT policies will ..."so any major pro-reunification KMT policies will similarly be blocked by lack of public support."<br /><br />I don't think the public feels a part of the equation. <br />The KMT will make the deals it wants to make through extra-political channels and its supporters in big business, organized crime and politics will benefit. Those who will benefit will use the mechanisms designed by the KMT to retain their positions in seats of power and popular opinion will continue to be an invention of the news media and the GIO. <br />The structures that are in place to mute true public opinion will also remain in place.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10698887.post-55587242870634316522009-05-20T07:00:05.079+08:002009-05-20T07:00:05.079+08:00but if you're going to call me a 'troll' just for ...<B>but if you're going to call me a 'troll' just for asking whether you actually have any evidence to support your somewhat contentious assertions,</B>I didn't call you a troll for that, idiot. <br /><br />As soon as you move into the realm of facts -- and learn to use Google -- you will treated as something other than the troll you are. <br /><br />Whining doesn't help either.<br /><br />MichaelMichael Turtonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17974403961870976346noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10698887.post-74841739914701358362009-05-20T03:05:00.000+08:002009-05-20T03:05:00.000+08:00@Anonymous - I was actually in Nanjing when old ma...@Anonymous - I was actually in Nanjing when old man Lian Zhan did his bumble through town. Back-room deals may have been completed, or they may not - but I'm not going to believe that they were done simply on the grounds of PRC 'face giving' (if it is that) since Ma took office. If we're all sat around 20 years from now watching "Formosa Betrayed Part II" then I'll have been proved wrong, but I don't expect to be. <br /><br />Meantime it seems highly likely that the current government will go down the well-worn path of the last government, just as the moderately pro-independence policies of Chen foundered on public apathy and KMT intransigence, so any major pro-reunification KMT policies will similarly be blocked by lack of public support. The main difference being that the pan-blues now have (but only just) the 3/4th majority necessary for constitutional change in the legislative yuan, but the government can still only advance on the broadest base of opinion due to the requirement of a referendum with at least 50% quoracy. <br /><br />@Michaelturton - Dude, this is your blog, your free to have my comments or not have them, but if you're going to call me a 'troll' just for asking whether you actually have any evidence to support your somewhat contentious assertions, then you're not doing much to dispel my scepticism. If you don't have any hard evidence that the KMT is planning some kind of reunification through undemocratic means, then at least you can say as much and be done with it. Suspicions are all well and good, indeed, given that I spent half of the Bush government's term giving it the benefit of the doubt, maybe I should be more suspicious, but suspicions are not a replacement for evidence, and cannot be treated as such.Gilman Grundyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06607416440240634159noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10698887.post-59467069959092643012009-05-19T23:59:00.000+08:002009-05-19T23:59:00.000+08:00I was in the same protest with Sean from taiwanmat...I was in the same protest with Sean from taiwanmatters. He called me when he arrived and started marching, but by then I had already passed the NTU. Talk about the size of that one....<br /><br />Anyway, I was reading throughout the portuguese media, and found out that all the info comes from Lusa (sort of an AP for news in Portuguese), from someone based in Macau. Their website is full of publicity by the macanese authorities, so we can easily connect the points and know why their news are full of bias...Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03599321881459445277noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10698887.post-72291794282307474582009-05-19T15:23:00.000+08:002009-05-19T15:23:00.000+08:00FOARP,
direct evidence would be wonderful to have...FOARP,<br /><br />direct evidence would be wonderful to have as some secrets are exactly that... <br /><br />What we do have is a vast amount of secondary evidence that, although isn't a smoking gun, is highly suggestive of back room deals and party to party agreements. <br /><br />If you remember much of the early framework for Ma's policies were conducted as party to party talks, when Lien Chan, representing the KMT, took his sleepy son to China, in the middle of Chen Shui bian's second term. The precedent which has already been set by the KMT would lead us to believe that Michael may be correct. I would love some evidence to come out to clarify this, but I assume the agreements and notes from negotiation sessions will remain off limits to the press, people and concerned bloggers. The lack of transparency and the silence on what is happening with these negotiations is deafening. You should ask why the public is not allowed to be more involved in this process.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10698887.post-50520977827506646932009-05-19T14:25:00.000+08:002009-05-19T14:25:00.000+08:00Well-put Michael!
But don't blame the "Western" me...Well-put Michael!<br />But don't blame the "Western" media without pointing out the ambiguity of too many Taiwanese (also here in the south): they vote with their wallets, stay mute on sovereignty issues in daily life ("my KMT boss might be listening"), and only come out in hordes (like myself) for mass demonstrations.<br /><br />I can hardly blame the Belgian, French and Dutch newspapers I read - the ones I know are critical of the EU's largely unconditional pro-China policies - not to understand Taiwan. Journalists and readers of those papers are unfamiliar with a people that seems confused about its own identity.<br /><br />But your efforts are highly appreciated, Michael.Johanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18256951644113086323noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10698887.post-14712520464712804852009-05-19T14:24:00.000+08:002009-05-19T14:24:00.000+08:00LOL, thanks troll.LOL, thanks troll.Michael Turtonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17974403961870976346noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10698887.post-29314636731591861522009-05-19T14:07:00.000+08:002009-05-19T14:07:00.000+08:00@Michael - Suit yourself. If you feel that you don...@Michael - Suit yourself. If you feel that you don't actually have to substantiate your beliefs with facts then it is somewhat difficult to have a meaningful dialogue. I'm just not going to believe in a conspiracy for which you can provide no evidence - I guess I'm crazy like that. And really, let's face it, you don't have "copious documentation" to prove this, only your own assumptions.Gilman Grundyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06607416440240634159noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10698887.post-79548907386191460102009-05-19T12:27:57.438+08:002009-05-19T12:27:57.438+08:00Great pictures Michael! Keep it up.Great pictures Michael! Keep it up.Grantnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10698887.post-78852309727288350232009-05-19T12:19:03.569+08:002009-05-19T12:19:03.569+08:00Then educate me! I did not say you were wrong, now...<B>Then educate me! I did not say you were wrong, now did I? I simply asked you whether you had a source, if you do, if you can genuinely show that a cabal of old party men are running things, then i would love to see it.</B>ROFLMAO! <br /><br />FOARP, I've been an administrator and moderator on all sorts of web sites, and I can spot a goal-posting shifting troll like you at 1000 yards. I know the outcome of supplying you with copious documentation, and don't feel like wasting time.<br /><br />You're welcome to post here, for the amusement of all, but I don't have time to waste on your games. What next? Asking me for proof that air contains oxygen? <br /><br />MichaelMichael Turtonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17974403961870976346noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10698887.post-27156429735043498002009-05-19T12:13:56.454+08:002009-05-19T12:13:56.454+08:00No, Taiwan wasn't "retroceded." That's an ROC prop...No, Taiwan wasn't "retroceded." That's an ROC propaganda claim. Taiwan remained Japanese until April 28, 1952, when the 1951 San Francisco Peace Treaty went into effect. That treaty does not specify a recipient for Taiwan's sovereignty, a deliberate act by the Powers. No "retrocession" ever took place.<br /><br />MichaelMichael Turtonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17974403961870976346noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10698887.post-43127812435924219292009-05-19T11:08:00.000+08:002009-05-19T11:08:00.000+08:00and in 1949 Taiwan belonged to Japan.Didn't Taiwan...<I>and in 1949 Taiwan belonged to Japan.</I>Didn't Taiwan get retroceded to China after the Japanese signed the surrender document in 1945?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10698887.post-33504305208499229122009-05-19T10:03:00.000+08:002009-05-19T10:03:00.000+08:00Looks like you still haven't done your reading on ...Looks like you still haven't done your reading on liberalism, Readin; still the same old, soon-to-be obsolete GOP formulations. I mean, not only are the formulations erroneous; they no longer work, either. Otherwise, why would Michael Steele be taking the (to me) ridiculous tack of trying to develop a "hip-hop" political message?vinnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10698887.post-8355492607131760252009-05-19T07:41:00.000+08:002009-05-19T07:41:00.000+08:00FOARP said...The public in the west know next to n...FOARP said...<I>The public in the west know next to nothing about Taiwan as it is not an important issue. This rally will have done nothing to change that...</I><BR>That is precisely the problem. The public in the west know next to nothing about Taiwan because events like this massive protest are largely ignored by the media, and the extent to which they do get covered, they are covered with such bias that the western public learns little anyway, and some of what they do learn is incorrect.<br /><BR>FOARP said...<I>...especially since the protested 'concessions' do not appear to be either substantial or permanent.</I><BR>Unfortunately, given the western bias of both media and government, it is likely that future governments will have the freedom to take back the concessions. Remember, while Taiwan is completely independent of China politically, it is not completely independent of the United States. It depends on the U.S. for the means to defend itself and is thereby constrained in what it can do that displeases the U.S..<br /><BR>The U.S. doesn't seem to consider the concessions to be "changing the status quo", but what do you think the U.S. will call it if Taiwan attempts to undo those concessions?Readinnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10698887.post-91264765325022953152009-05-19T07:35:00.000+08:002009-05-19T07:35:00.000+08:00http://hansioux.pixnet.net/album/photo/118767232
...http://hansioux.pixnet.net/album/photo/118767232<br /><br />link to my video on may 17th.<br /><br />Today is the 20 years memorial since Zhang Yi-Hua threw himself onto the roadblock, next to the sign hanging from the sharp knifes on the road block that reads "Born a Taiwanese soul, Die a Taiwanese ghost", and then set himself on fire in protest of KMT's oppressive dictatorship.竹板凳https://www.blogger.com/profile/04750287148383644259noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10698887.post-49714738338533964112009-05-19T06:48:00.000+08:002009-05-19T06:48:00.000+08:00@Michael - Then educate me! I did not say you were...@Michael - Then educate me! I did not say you were wrong, now did I? I simply asked you whether you had a source, if you do, if you can genuinely show that a cabal of old party men are running things, then i would love to see it.<br /><br />Of course, it may be that you have no such source, in which case I would be right to be sceptical - wouldn't I?Gilman Grundyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06607416440240634159noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10698887.post-23655270677526228362009-05-19T06:23:00.000+08:002009-05-19T06:23:00.000+08:00FOARP:
"as far as I'm aware, the president is st...FOARP: <br /><br />"as far as I'm aware, the president is still calling the shots."<br /><br />Maybe you should, you know, learn something about Taiwan before you post here.<br /><br />MichaelMichael Turtonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17974403961870976346noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10698887.post-87710368349031861922009-05-19T01:28:00.000+08:002009-05-19T01:28:00.000+08:00That is a very good point, anon.
Although I think...That is a very good point, anon.<br /><br />Although I think he didn't learn crap from Harvard. Harvard should be ashamed that they have such student. <br /><br />Does Harvard now train old ugly gigolo who don't like to wear underwear and pretend they are sexy? Harvard should think long and deep on this one.<br /><br />One thing for sure...if I am a employer, I will double check on students graduating from Harvard, they might turn out to be someone like Ma who has fallen to the Dark side.<br /><br />Harvard sucks.Dixteelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05689510846926854542noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10698887.post-9768646761113516542009-05-19T00:53:00.000+08:002009-05-19T00:53:00.000+08:00I do give UDN credit for doing the very least you ...I do give UDN credit for doing the very least you could ask for from teh pan-Blue media--headlining today's news with the protests and a secondary headline of the police car hitting two protestors.<br /><br />Ma's fearful. He tried to set up big events to compete with the protests. But the protests were so huge that you couldn't not cover it.<br /><br />The DPP engaged China, but China didn't want to give anything to the DPP. China is rewarding the KMT for being pro-China; it can turn it off at any time.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10698887.post-46340403404667795822009-05-19T00:48:00.000+08:002009-05-19T00:48:00.000+08:00Someone, maybe the DPP, should really start to mak...Someone, maybe the DPP, should really start to make document these demonstrations by making aerial pictures.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10698887.post-9188212801011285442009-05-19T00:43:00.000+08:002009-05-19T00:43:00.000+08:00I think we're all protesting too much about the "H...I think we're all protesting too much about the "Harvard-educated" label. I did a google with that phrase in the News section and got 625 hits (I got only one hit with this phrase and Ma).<br /><br />Just today, Rajiv Gandhi, who's rising up again in India's leadership was referred to the same way. <br /><br />Do a general web google and you'll get "Harvard-educated Ban Ki Moon" and "Harvard-educated Annette Lu", "Harvard-educated Ellen Johnson-Sirleaf" "Harvard-educated Donald Tsang", "Harvard-educated Benazir Bhutto" and "Harvard-educated Barrack and Michelle Obama". <br /><br />Harvard is considered the university of many of the most important democratic world leaders. Obviously, the press wants to include Ma in that august company. <br /><br />Since there are arguably few bad presidents and heads of government from Harvard (all right, Bush is one), Mr. Ma I'm sure is aware that he has a lot of pressure to maintain his standing with the others.<br /><br />It should be noted that only a very small number of celebrated Harvrd alumni originate from China (HK yes, not the 'mainland').Marcnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10698887.post-33277856269223107222009-05-18T23:21:00.000+08:002009-05-18T23:21:00.000+08:00What is the point of creating noise out from the p...What is the point of creating noise out from the protest when at the end of the day, DPP will still lose badly in the general election. <br /><br />Empty vessel make the most noise.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com