tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10698887.post1100802343313288093..comments2023-10-22T18:25:39.688+08:00Comments on The View from Taiwan: Tropes and Tragedies in the MediaMichael Turtonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17974403961870976346noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10698887.post-89406645482681518832014-07-06T21:37:03.344+08:002014-07-06T21:37:03.344+08:00Anyway, the rest of this post is excellent. I hope...<b>Anyway, the rest of this post is excellent. I hope most of your readers understand why all those things in Counterpunch are mistakes.</b><br /><br />Thanks Tim. I'd love to put in a piece at Counterpunch, and I was encouraged by that one, which at least pointed out the problems of China.Michael Turtonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17974403961870976346noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10698887.post-36731894365606635052014-07-06T21:36:08.889+08:002014-07-06T21:36:08.889+08:00I get your point. Thanks!I get your point. Thanks!Michael Turtonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17974403961870976346noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10698887.post-86589895815144444832014-07-06T21:08:32.053+08:002014-07-06T21:08:32.053+08:00I don't know if you got my point or not. Yes,...I don't know if you got my point or not. Yes, there are domestic propaganda uses to that trip. The CCP doesn't do anything without domestic propaganda coordination. But people in Taiwan were also an intended audience for the trip. <br /><br />My sense (do you agree?) was that a lot of people here found that visit unsettling. What the hell was he doing in those meetings? China won't ever win over the people who were out there throwing paint on him, or you, but by regular interaction they can desensitize a whole swath of the population who now feel uneasy about China. The message this time was "hey you're upset, but look, nothing came of it". Next time it will be "relax, we're back". Then eventually "hi!" The wolf will look like a sheep. Or at least a dog.<br /><br />In some ways this will be a good thing. In some ways, not.<br />Phantnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10698887.post-29656978268410833452014-07-06T20:25:01.120+08:002014-07-06T20:25:01.120+08:00Ralph Jennings/AP wrote:
- - -
China and Taiwan ha...Ralph Jennings/AP wrote:<br />- - -<br /><i>China and Taiwan have been separately ruled since the Chinese civil war of the 1940s.</i><br />- - -<br /><br />They are still wrong as fuck all. In the 1940s, Taiwan had been ruled by Japan for half a century, and prior to that, about half of Taiwan was nominally ruled by the Manchus (as a "province" for only a decade), who were considered by Han Chinese of the time to be "foreign invaders." But you knew that already.<br /><br />Jennings/AP falsely imply with this formulation that Taiwan had been part of China before the 1940s. I rate it "still a lie."<br /><br />Anyway, the rest of this post is excellent. I hope most of your readers understand <i>why</i> all those things in Counterpunch are mistakes.<br /><br /><a href="http://taiwanmatters.blogspot.com/" title="Taiwan Matters!" rel="nofollow">Tim Maddog</a>Tim Maddoghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16943522529132663780noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10698887.post-28967661771754614162014-07-06T19:09:01.705+08:002014-07-06T19:09:01.705+08:00f the whole world, the Nation used Chen's case...<b>f the whole world, the Nation used Chen's case as example for "How New York Real Estate Became a Dumping Ground for the World’s Dirty Money"???</b><br /><br />Yep. What a bunch of assholes. But you know why -- because like the Justice Department, the Nation knew that Chen was sick and dying in jail and wouldn't cause them any trouble. Russian oligarchs, on the other hand, can be troublesome and violent. Thus, there is no question who they fuck on -- the former democracy fighter or the anti-democracy oligarchs, the mafia, etc.<br /><br />MichaelMichael Turtonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17974403961870976346noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10698887.post-44669082128160899772014-07-06T19:07:00.201+08:002014-07-06T19:07:00.201+08:00Phant, all of those things the Chinese already kne...Phant, all of those things the Chinese already knew and already have people working on. Contacts occur every day in many different entities and environments. This visit was purely about the PR which the international media swooned for. Fortunately there are more thoughtful and analytical alternatives to the international media. <br /><br /><br />MichaelMichael Turtonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17974403961870976346noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10698887.post-59214834241199439992014-07-06T15:56:00.966+08:002014-07-06T15:56:00.966+08:00Fair enough on the implicit anti-DPP bias, but you...Fair enough on the implicit anti-DPP bias, but you and others aren't right when you say the trip was only for PRC media (with international media following along with the story). <br /><br />The logic of the visit is exactly the same as for China's recent maritime adventurism -- you take small steps and let people get used to it. This won't be the only visit. The protests will get smaller as the visits multiply, and China can accept them as an extreme minority opinion. <br /><br />The other piece is that China sees if not a constituency here then at least some parts of society that it can work with, or exercise leverage over. So the visit is part of building that relationship between the Chinese government and sectors of Taiwanese society.<br /><br />So no, not that big an event, but not a mere "PR campaign" either. It's part of a slow and steady (10 year? 20 year?) strategy.<br /><br />And I would say the "minister level" aspect does have its symbolic importance.Phantnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10698887.post-66112721472507478502014-07-06T05:46:16.656+08:002014-07-06T05:46:16.656+08:00Of the whole world, the Nation used Chen's cas...Of the whole world, the Nation used Chen's case as example for "How New York Real Estate Became a Dumping Ground for the World’s Dirty Money"???<br /><br />WTF! The NY/US housing bubbled before 2006-7 and crashed in 2006-7 due to subprime lending and ponzi-schemed "creative derivatives," not due to Chen. If only Chen could've staged such a spectacle!<br /><br />Chen has been put under detention and later in prison since 2008. The NY (and London) housing has not turned around and staged a raging come-back until 2011. The "dirty money dumping" effect did not start to show until 2012. So, WTF!<br /><br />The real biggest "dirty money dumping ground" of the recent 2-3 years is London, not New York.<br /><br />I'd think that Ukrainian, Russian, Turkey or Chinese oligarchs would be the most convincing examples for "dirty money".<br /><br />Scroll down to the middle of the Nation's article, one sees their one-line ad: <br /><br />"<i>Please support our journalism. Get a digital subscription for just $9.50!</i>"<br /><br />Yes, they call their non-sense "journalism". They beg for $9.50, they know they don't worth much. Still, $9.50? I'd sooner throw my $9.50 to a street violin performer.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10698887.post-597389462445652252014-07-05T11:29:01.894+08:002014-07-05T11:29:01.894+08:00Considering the shit they used to print, that'...Considering the shit they used to print, that's a great improvement. AP isn't going to let him print the truth. <br /><br />MichaelMichael Turtonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17974403961870976346noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10698887.post-29440227208887109072014-07-05T11:04:50.527+08:002014-07-05T11:04:50.527+08:00'China and Taiwan have been separately ruled s...'China and Taiwan have been separately ruled since the Chinese civil war of the 1940s. China sees the island as part of its territory that eventually must be reunified — by force if necessary — despite a Taiwanese public largely wary of the notion of Chinese rule.'<br /><br />'Largely wary'? It looks like he's trying to radically downplay the extent of Taiwanese opposition to Chinese control.<br /><br /> 'They're only wary. That's no impediment at all. My buddy was wary about getting married but he took the plunge and has never looked back. Yeah, they'll come around in no time.' Macnoreply@blogger.com