tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10698887.post7215485314330313461..comments2023-10-22T18:25:39.688+08:00Comments on The View from Taiwan: Bush Lauds Taiwan in APEC SpeechMichael Turtonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17974403961870976346noreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10698887.post-5265750017443183452007-09-13T07:48:00.000+08:002007-09-13T07:48:00.000+08:00is Davidson's Island of Formosa Past and Present a...<B>is Davidson's Island of Formosa Past and Present available online?</B><BR/><BR/>Actually you can find it on books.google.com; full view is available. Now, you won't be able to find google books if you simply google for the title on google tw.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10698887.post-58812005856264279472007-09-11T20:10:00.000+08:002007-09-11T20:10:00.000+08:00Michael, is Davidson's Island of Formosa Past and ...Michael, is Davidson's Island of Formosa Past and Present available online?<BR/><BR/>Cheers ;)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10698887.post-47685247858892367832007-09-11T18:42:00.000+08:002007-09-11T18:42:00.000+08:00going slightly off-topic here - I was talking to a...going slightly off-topic here - I was talking to a friend in Taiwan, who's just started uni there. Apparently History books still mention Taiwan becoming part of China on Retrocession Day. It seems that schools are still teaching this pro China/ROC/KMT viewpoint. No mention being made of the San Francisco Treaty. <BR/><BR/>If my friends comment is anything to go by, it would seem that many people believe that Taiwan and China did 'split' in 1949...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10698887.post-86320536778490452202007-09-11T15:31:00.000+08:002007-09-11T15:31:00.000+08:00Cheers Michael!That's great!Cheers Michael!<BR/><BR/>That's great!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10698887.post-63162608699564307632007-09-11T06:38:00.000+08:002007-09-11T06:38:00.000+08:00I agree Taiwan was never part of the PRC, and also...<B>I agree Taiwan was never part of the PRC, and also agree that Taiwan was never in it's entirety a part of china. However, wasn't the western part of Taiwan a part of China for a period of time?<BR/><BR/>I'd be very grateful if you could give me some references that prove that Taiwan was never part of China (it would also make it easier for me to argue this point when talking to chinese friends ;)).</B><BR/><BR/>The argument has many points. Randomly.... 1. The Taiwanese repeatedly rebelled against Qing rule, throwing them off the island completely once, and nearly completely a couple of other times. They never accepted Qing rule. 2. The Qing were Manchus, not Han, not Chinese, and ran an empire. Many Chinese never accepted Qing rule. 3. Taiwan was a colony of that empire -- and thus, is no more part of China than India is part of the UK or Peru part of Spain. 4. The Qing never controlled the whole island, only the lowland areas. 5. The Qing specifically denied owning the island when queried on a couple of occasions, and said that the island's aboriginal chiefs were out of its jurisdiction. 6. Want to piss off your CHinese friends? Qing officials paid tribute to the aborigines. <BR/><BR/>All this history is in Davidson's Island of Formosa Past and Present.<BR/><BR/>You could add that Taiwan was never historically thought of as part of China -- the Qing forbade emigration to it from China for many score years. The Chinese generals employed by the QIng to conquer it in the late 17th century all said that Taiwan was no part of China and the Qing had no business being there. To fast forward, when Chiang unified China in 1927, nobody asked him where Taiwan was, because nobody thought about it as China. The idea that Taiwan is "sacred national territoriy" is strictly a post-1945 phenomenon.Michael Turtonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17974403961870976346noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10698887.post-31670503934680958832007-09-11T04:14:00.000+08:002007-09-11T04:14:00.000+08:00Michael, you said that Taiwan was never part of Ch...Michael, you said that Taiwan was never part of China, and certainly never part of the PRC.<BR/><BR/>I agree Taiwan was never part of the PRC, and also agree that Taiwan was never in it's entirety a part of china. However, wasn't the western part of Taiwan a part of China for a period of time?<BR/><BR/>I'd be very grateful if you could give me some references that prove that Taiwan was never part of China (it would also make it easier for me to argue this point when talking to chinese friends ;)).<BR/><BR/>Thanks!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10698887.post-22432586687175938122007-09-11T03:19:00.000+08:002007-09-11T03:19:00.000+08:00Why not just inaugurate the isle country's name as...Why not just inaugurate the isle country's name as The Taiwan Republic? It's a lot simpler. <BR/><BR/>Tancredo comes from a strange place (Colorado, which has incredibly conservative attitudes). Perhaps he can be forgiven. He is a product of his culture. He seems to have a great deal of commonsense in many areas that don't involve immigration, social or sexual mores.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15907060405795620941noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10698887.post-85971842804062299892007-09-10T07:37:00.000+08:002007-09-10T07:37:00.000+08:00"It's really unfortunate...that of the three congr...<I>"It's really unfortunate...<BR/>that of the three congressmen mentioned in this article as coming out in favor of Taiwan's UN bid, two of them are Tom Tancredo and Bill Sali, a pair of the most cretinous imbeciles serving in the US House of Representatives."</I><BR/><BR/>No sane persons support Taiwan Independence. Only out of mainstream neo-conservative hawks, mad 'academics' like John Tsacik and Michael Turton and his friends do. By the way Michael, you think quite highly of yourself not? It seems you are addressing the US State Department on your blog, but who are you? Just a blogger like many...JZhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10212825239568291402noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10698887.post-12402122651382479162007-09-10T04:48:00.000+08:002007-09-10T04:48:00.000+08:00raj: Why change the island's name to "Republic of ...raj: <B>Why change the island's name to "Republic of Taiwan"? </B><BR/><BR/><B>ROT</B> is indeed a terrible name ! :)Runsunhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00943096071902196841noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10698887.post-15583692101662849782007-09-10T04:45:00.000+08:002007-09-10T04:45:00.000+08:00Didn't Harry Truman say something about how he cou...<B>Didn't Harry Truman say something about how he could handle his enemies, but it was his friends that he worried about? Taiwan should be worried about friends like these.</B><BR/><BR/>friends? really? what friends ?Runsunhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00943096071902196841noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10698887.post-40946799578349101462007-09-10T03:55:00.000+08:002007-09-10T03:55:00.000+08:00...The fact that a senior WH aide is telling us th....<BR/>.<BR/>.<BR/>The fact that a senior WH aide is telling us that Taiwan is currently not a state is very bad news. It trumps anything the liar in chief says, IMO. For, you cannot take anything the Bush administration says in public at face value.<BR/><BR/>This name and constitutional change, unfortunately, is coming way too late. I will always look back at the 2005 legislative election as being the point at which Taiwan lost a big opportunity to implement this change and have the U.S. and the world accept it. Back then, Taiwan at least had some leverage.<BR/><BR/>And everyone talks about the referendum and the ASL. Well, the DPP screwed that up as well by allowing 2 ballot boxes during that vote -- thereby sacrificing anonymity (crucial to the KMT plan to boycott the vote and nullify the referendum).<BR/><BR/>Too many wasted opportunities have helped put Taiwan in this position. The Taiwanese and the DPP have no one to blame but themselves for this. Don't get me wrong, the Taiwnanese have made bold steps forward but, unfortunately, the change has not been quick enough for the world stage.<BR/><BR/>.<BR/>.<BR/>.skiingkowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05381159852660053893noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10698887.post-39108826386133133152007-09-09T19:19:00.000+08:002007-09-09T19:19:00.000+08:00Didn't Harry Truman say something about how he cou...Didn't Harry Truman say something about how he could handle his enemies, but it was his friends that he worried about? Taiwan should be worried about friends like these.Michael Faheyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11057491107522344042noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10698887.post-85330681057931530652007-09-09T18:19:00.000+08:002007-09-09T18:19:00.000+08:00Michael, it is true that eventual independence is ...Michael, it is true that eventual independence is the most popular position in Taiwan at the moment.<BR/><BR/>However, people don't care so much that they want it tomorrow - nor will it win an election. This is what the DPP need to realise. The danger is that they clamp onto it as William Hague did in the 2001 UK general election in regards to not joining the Euro. It's popular, but it needs to be part of a wide-ranging agenda that addresses all the bread & butter issues, whilst not coming across in a "vote for us and get a war" manner.<BR/><BR/>After all, the idea of "independence" is not universal. I talked with a senior UK minister who deals with foreign policy on Taiwan. He said he has heard one real solution being discussed is for Taiwan to join a "greater Chinese Union" not unlike the old USSR as a face-saving deal for China, where Taiwan could have its own UN seat. One man's independence is another's re-unification.<BR/><BR/>On a side issue, I think the DPP are going completely the wrong way with proposed name-changes. Why change the island's name to "Republic of Taiwan"? That's just going to piss the Chinese off and give them an excuse for war that the US might accept means they wouldn't get involved. Surely it would be better to just change the official name to <I>Taiwan</I>. Japan's official name is, as far as I know, "Japan". That would allow Chinese to argue unification was still possible - Taiwan couldn't "join" the PRC as a republic, could it, even as the ROC.<BR/><BR/>It's time to think intelligently. Identify the problem and try to work around it. Joining the UN as "Taiwan" is probably going to fail, but it's better than trying as the ROC. So if Taiwan identifying itself as an independent state is going to kick off a war, reduce the chances (or at least maximise the chance of US support) by not having the word "republic" in the island's title.Rajhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10034317459759343093noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10698887.post-58092218454932413842007-09-09T15:24:00.000+08:002007-09-09T15:24:00.000+08:00Yes, I winced when I saw the names, especially Sal...Yes, I winced when I saw the names, especially Sali, who may well be the biggest clown in Congress.<BR/><BR/>MichaelMichael Turtonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17974403961870976346noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10698887.post-22355239717958466812007-09-09T13:21:00.000+08:002007-09-09T13:21:00.000+08:00As someone mentioned to me earlier todayIt's reall...As someone mentioned to me earlier today<BR/><BR/><I>It's really unfortunate... <BR/>that of the three congressmen mentioned in this article as coming out in favor of Taiwan's UN bid, two of them are Tom Tancredo and Bill Sali, a pair of the most cretinous imbeciles serving in the US House of Representatives.</I><BR/><BR/>Tancredo, I discover to my amazement, is actually running for president on a platform "to secure the borders, protect American sovereignty, and preserve our culture."Michael Faheyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11057491107522344042noreply@blogger.com