tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10698887.post6300376225333929007..comments2023-10-22T18:25:39.688+08:00Comments on The View from Taiwan: Robert Green in the Taiwan Journal on those Condescending foreigners and Taiwan DemocracyMichael Turtonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17974403961870976346noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10698887.post-80893918919140887262010-05-10T23:01:46.632+08:002010-05-10T23:01:46.632+08:00Robert Green is a complete joke. I read that he cl...Robert Green is a complete joke. I read that he claims to be a "regular contributor to the Economist Intelligence Unit." Is there any proof of this smack?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10698887.post-46066170355363295382009-02-21T20:17:00.000+08:002009-02-21T20:17:00.000+08:00I'm not clear on the import of your last sentence ...I'm not clear on the import of your last sentence above, Arty. Are you offering to pay people to listen to you?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10698887.post-69829816976610911032009-02-15T03:57:00.000+08:002009-02-15T03:57:00.000+08:00Arty (50 Cent'er?) seems to use the old 'well othe...<B>Arty (50 Cent'er?) seems to use the old 'well other countries do it that way so we can too' argument to justify the state of the rule of law in Taiwan.</B><BR/><BR/>No, I just want to point out that Taiwan's system is based on the Napoleonic Code adopted and improved on by many European nations, followed by Japan, then Taiwan. I think a lot of readers are confused because when it is not like their ideal system or the American system (heck even the American legal system has the same fault), it must be wrong or something.<BR/><BR/><B>We should set the highest standards for ourselves independently of other nations: why follow when we can lead?</B><BR/><BR/>Exactly, therefore you should follow the law instead of breaking it. You may not like it, but like Green mentioned, no law was broken that's the highest standard in my book. We can do better is a notion and a idea which in reality the outcomes are usually from bad to worse far from ideal. I can give you many examples in the past world history. Of course, you are just going to accuse me of comparing to other countries. One thing I have to point out, during DPP administration, some of Chen's executive orders are in direct conflict with the law, and yet I don't see you guys crying.<BR/><BR/>Hey, if you listen to me, you will be more than 50 cents richer. My portfolio was a huge positive last year instead of > 30% down.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10698887.post-72545218990472662852009-02-14T22:55:00.000+08:002009-02-14T22:55:00.000+08:00Robert Green has a reputation at the GIO as a "ver...Robert Green has a reputation at the GIO as a "very, very, very good writer." Anything he scribbles will be published carte blanche. I also hear he has final say on the copy that goes to print. Case in point being his fight a year or so ago with the Taiwan Review's editors over their editing and headline selection. Green did not approve, so he pulled his piece and left the TR with a blank page several days before deadline.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10698887.post-86357362760254659542009-02-14T14:19:00.000+08:002009-02-14T14:19:00.000+08:00When the Taiwan Review hired Green they were so de...When the Taiwan Review hired Green they were so desparate to find a foreign editor. At the time they couldn't get anyone to stay more than a year. Taiwan Journal has had a big foreign editor/writer turnover problem lately so that piece was probably one that flew under the radar or allowed in by a very uninfotmed staffer.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10698887.post-10885583804280929162009-02-14T13:22:00.000+08:002009-02-14T13:22:00.000+08:00(Reposted in the correct place.)While I agree with...(Reposted in the correct place.)<BR/>While I agree with all your criticism, really what's the point of tearing apart an article posted in a government propaganda organ? Taiwan Journal is just a bunch of press releases from the current executive branch, not anything approaching a real journal, or even a lame magazine.<BR/><BR/>They may publish a piece on some interesting bit of local culture once in a while, but that's still nothing but tourism-promoting PR.<BR/><BR/>People are asking "Why would the Taiwan Journal publish such tripe?" but it's a silly question. Taiwan Journal is nothing but a PR newsletter from the Executive Yuan, and the disclaimer that "These views are the author's and not necessarily those of the TJ." is clearly bullshit.Roy Bermanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02404504492160833658noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10698887.post-7979075150563933942009-02-14T12:52:00.000+08:002009-02-14T12:52:00.000+08:00Arty (50 Cent'er?) seems to use the old 'well othe...Arty (50 Cent'er?) seems to use the old 'well other countries do it that way so we can too' argument to justify the state of the rule of law in Taiwan. Michael's main point is that Green makes a Fallacy of Exclusion: evidence which would change the outcome of an inductive argument is excluded from consideration (from the great site: http://onegoodmove.org/fallacy/toc.htm). Arty makes the False Analogy: the two objects or events being compared are relevantly dissimilar eg Taiwan and France or UK. Following international standards on carbon emissions might help Taiwan but there is little need to look at other country's legal standards and penetration, integrity and effectiveness of rule of law for guidance on assessing the health of our own. We should set the highest standards for ourselves independently of other nations: why follow when we can lead? .. or is it a case of 'do the minimum'? The regular references by the KMT to the 'Singapore Model' is a concern since comparison is being made with a country with less rights than Taiwan. Why is it that when countries cite other countries' records they most often to so as a way to deflect attention from their own. It is rarely an upwards aspiring comparison but rather an apologetic 'at least we're not as bad as them' argument. eg don't complain about the KMT because look at the CCPs record.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10698887.post-51932854117209520642009-02-14T10:11:00.000+08:002009-02-14T10:11:00.000+08:00Really...it is clear that I quote "with no indicat...<B>Really...it is clear that I quote "with no indication of any legal violations, the case against Chen has been..." All the points you raised has not been a legal violations, am I right? Is it stupid? Maybe. Is it dirty? Probably. Is it legal? Definitely legal, and it is what the rules of law allow.</B><BR/><BR/>I never said anything about the law, but instead, focused on the concrete issues that Green ignored.<BR/><BR/>As for the legal issues, it is not me but the pro-KMT China Times that accused the judicial system of acting unconstitutionally.<BR/><BR/>MichaelMichael Turtonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17974403961870976346noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10698887.post-7574495012594237712009-02-14T09:15:00.000+08:002009-02-14T09:15:00.000+08:00Of course, Green had to ignore these issues, becau...<B>Of course, Green had to ignore these issues, because to raise them would totally invalidate his point that the concerns are just misguided</B><BR/><BR/>Really...it is clear that I quote "with no indication of any legal violations, the case against Chen has been..." All the points you raised has not been a legal violations, am I right? Is it stupid? Maybe. Is it dirty? Probably. Is it legal? Definitely legal, and it is what the rules of law allow. <BR/><BR/><B>...Presuming either guilt or innocence during the trial process is the difference between a police state and a democratic nation under the rule of law. A system that clings to the premise that "one must be detained once indicted." does not meet the minimum standards for the rule of law...</B><BR/><BR/>Actually a lot old common law systems detains the indicted without proven of guilt. I think England and France still do it (I could be wrong). Damn the imperialist! It has nothing to do with concept of "innocence before proven guilty." Plus innocence is a big word compare to not guilty i.e. OJ Simpson was proven not guilty for killing his ex-wife; however, it does not mean he is innocent.<BR/><BR/>All I am saying as long as the prosecutor stays within the law of the land. It could only be beneficial to the legal system. Unlike someone who keep asking to be excused by court over fake health reason while breaking the law (her blood pressure is normal for people with her condition).<BR/><BR/><B>Can you imagine such "self appointed superiority?"</B><BR/><BR/>Look at who is talking :P Hey if your predictions were ever right, feel free to go at it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10698887.post-3555550062341647952009-02-14T08:25:00.000+08:002009-02-14T08:25:00.000+08:00What a poorly written piece of dribble. Pompous, ...What a poorly written piece of dribble. Pompous, delusional and utterly uninformed. Why would the Taiwan Journal publish such tripe? Shame TJ, shame.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10698887.post-49673408885575024822009-02-14T08:24:00.000+08:002009-02-14T08:24:00.000+08:00Maybe the KMT overseers at the GIO have something ...Maybe the KMT overseers at the GIO have something to blackmail Robert Green with. Maybe he wrote what they wanted to be said, but the only way he could express defiance was to write it poorly.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10698887.post-46517723135249051682009-02-14T08:18:00.000+08:002009-02-14T08:18:00.000+08:00That's kind of sad. The Taiwan Review is good. A...That's kind of sad. The Taiwan Review is good. And why is Taiwan Journal shilling yet again?<BR/><BR/>Robert Green is ignoring all the domestic voices that are kicking and screaming about the rollback in civil rights and procedural law here. That's condescension. A few English articles here and there, and it trumps all the Taiwanese voices that were pissed about not being able to carry flags, not being able to properly protest, judges and prosecutors not evening pretending to be neutral.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10698887.post-52461367131172543692009-02-14T07:45:00.000+08:002009-02-14T07:45:00.000+08:00That's the kind of crap we've been hearing for yea...That's the kind of crap we've been hearing for years from journalists in regard to China. Funny seeing it applied to Taiwan. Sino-centric authoritarianism seems to be the only ideology these days that can get away with this.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10698887.post-36701218558600544812009-02-14T07:15:00.000+08:002009-02-14T07:15:00.000+08:00Ouch, you almost have to feel sorry for the guy - ...Ouch, you almost have to feel sorry for the guy - that was a pretty hard spanking. Damn funny, though.StefanMuchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13041616398172997165noreply@blogger.com