tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10698887.post4804901963416631917..comments2023-10-22T18:25:39.688+08:00Comments on The View from Taiwan: Paper on Parade: Hizen Porcelain and Global Trade in the era of KoxingaMichael Turtonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17974403961870976346noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10698887.post-4685552736862463192009-07-16T15:48:08.646+08:002009-07-16T15:48:08.646+08:00Thanks. I made some mistakes earlier. Though the...Thanks. I made some mistakes earlier. Though there is an informal notation called ASCII IPA, I was actually thinking of X-SAMPA, which is a more recognized standard.<br /><br />I also goofed in X-SAMPA transcription, due to lack of practice. The capital 'H' should have been '_h', which is how aspiration is indicated. I had thought that the alveolar stop [t] in 'Tayvan' was aspirated, but you've corrected me.<br /><br />The capital 'C' should have been 'O', which is the open-mid back rounded vowel.<br /><br />The Hakka word for "Taiwan" is [t_hoivOn].<br /><br />I can see how the Siraya ['taIvOn] got converted into the Holo [taI 33 w@n 24].Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10698887.post-11870275031993921902009-07-15T06:40:11.824+08:002009-07-15T06:40:11.824+08:00I am not familiar with the ASCII denotation of IPA...I am not familiar with the ASCII denotation of IPA but the pronuciation of Tayvan is as follows:<br /><br />1. "t" = unaspired t (as in French or as in Dutch spoken in most regions of the Netherlands).<br /><br />2. "ay" = "ai" (as in "T_ai_wan"). However, the original Siraya sound must have had a strong stress on the "i" ("yi") sound because the Dutch sometimes denoted the whole word as "Tayovan" (the Hanzi transcription in ancient documents was "臺窩員", based on the Holo pronuciation.)<br /><br />3. "v" = "v" (the Dutch pronounce it with a slight puff; sounding like something between English "v" and "f"; there is an IPA symbole for this sound.) Since the original sound was from the Siraya language, its original form is presumed to have been the "v" sound in English; i.e. without the Dutch soft puff.<br /><br />4. "an" = "ahn".SYnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10698887.post-16707509678235294082009-07-13T13:30:04.265+08:002009-07-13T13:30:04.265+08:00That was a great post, SY, Can you provide the pr...That was a great post, SY, Can you provide the pronunciation of Tayvan in ASCII IPA? I'm no sure if it's [tHaivCn] or [tHevCn].<br /><br />I think the Hakka call Taiwan [tHoIvCn], so perhaps they preserved the name with a little vowel-shifting. <br /><br />Many thnks.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10698887.post-61942879444244678192009-07-10T00:03:55.486+08:002009-07-10T00:03:55.486+08:00SY- great post! I trace my lineage to the early d...SY- great post! I trace my lineage to the early days of Tainan and greatly appreciate your insight into my birth town and Taiwan.Islanderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09027760124467699924noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10698887.post-16396044421215696802009-07-09T21:57:32.263+08:002009-07-09T21:57:32.263+08:00"What I wrote above is not well known among t..."What I wrote above is not well known among the Taiwanese because the history of Taiwan was basically a taboo subject before mid-1990's and has only been lightly touched in school for the past 10 or so years."<br /><br /><br />Rather, the history is constantly being parsed to be more congruent with the Chinese national narrative. Many historical locations have visitor information which is steeped in ideology. Cheng and pre Cheng Taiwan is often included in the Ming dynastic dates. The Chengs are usually portrayed as "retaking" Taiwan from the Dutch. It is always portrayed from the Chinese nationalist's cosmological point of view. Often the English translation is better than the Chinese.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10698887.post-85926061640061211002009-07-09T21:51:21.787+08:002009-07-09T21:51:21.787+08:00The Book Pirate King gives a rollicking account.The Book Pirate King gives a rollicking account.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10698887.post-23731739331036330682009-07-09T12:06:04.344+08:002009-07-09T12:06:04.344+08:00Quite enjoyed reading this post. Thanks.Quite enjoyed reading this post. Thanks.Aì Tâi-oânhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00235335599929837498noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10698887.post-6367251293625075572009-07-09T03:20:47.262+08:002009-07-09T03:20:47.262+08:00One record should be set straight:
There is a mis...One record should be set straight:<br /><br />There is a misconception that Coxinga had a lot to do with Taiwan. The truth is that the Dutch capitulated in Feb 1662 and Coxinga died in June the same year. During that 4 months, he was travelling between Taiwan and the Holo Land in the Amoy area, plotting to take the Philipines. He died before he could achieve his ambitious goal of building a kingdom of sea trading (his father and his Japanese grandfather were sea pirates. As you know, he was born in Japan and didn't leave Japan until he was 7. So, don't believe that he would've been loyel to "China", a concept that didn't exist until early 1900's)<br /><br />It means that Coxinga really did not have a lot to do with Taiwan during his life time. The real ruler and the person who actually ran "The Kingdom of Tayvan" (or "The Kingdom of Taiwan") was his son, who was saluted as "Your Highness, the King of Tayvan" in all diplomatic documents such as in his communication with England.<br /><br />The Kingdom's Hanzi name was "東寧王國" (Kingdon of Eastern Peace) and the son of Coxinga was the 東寧王 (The King of Eastern Peace). Today's Tainan City still has a street called 東寧路 ("Eastern Peace" Road) near NCKU. One wonders why Tainan City has a festival in honor of Coxinga as opposed to his son, the King of Tayvan.<br /><br />In the map you show, Tayvan is denoted as "Tainan", a name given to the area much later by the Japanese. "Tayvan" was the name used by the local arborigines to refer to the coastal sandy wetland area (aka "Kunsin" - "鯤鯓") where the Holo immigrants lived. <br /><br />Gradually, "Tayvan" was used to refer to the broader area (today's greater Tainan area) and eventually to the whole island. Today, it is spelt "Taiwan". Note that in Holo Taiwanese the second syllable is pronounced with rising tone (even today), indicating that today's Hanzi "台灣" is only a mimicing translation.<br /><br />What I wrote above is not well known among the Taiwanese because the history of Taiwan was basically a taboo subject before mid-1990's and has only been lightly touched in school for the past 10 or so years. Today, the Chinese Nationalists (of KMT) are still trying very hard to solely own the interpretation of Taiwan's history.<br /><br />NOTE: In historic documents, "Tayvan" was sometimes spelt "Tayovan", "Tayoan" or "Taivan". In the 17th century, the Netherlands did't have a unified spelling system.SYnoreply@blogger.com